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Homer
Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:13am PT
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We have finite perceptions of an infinite reality, and we don't understand, but we want to understand, we need to understand, but we don't understand. It's OK, our "rational" minds are just slightly maladapted that way. Might be healthier to just look the other way, or just believe some finite story about infinity, whatever works for you.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:36am PT
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Over the next couple hundred years this crazy cult, one among many, gained political power and established itself as the "wish fulfillment center" of Western culture. Other equally irrational belief systems developed elsewhere at other times. Thanks to literacy and publishing, these things perpetuated themselves and came into infamous and unavoidable conflict. So here we are today.
---
What's missing here is that this, too, is a belief, possibly no less or no more irrational than those you gloss.
What happens when you chuck the beliefs? Are you still there? Is the sun still hot? Is the sky still "up" in the vault? What then is your experience?
JL
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jstan
climber
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Oct 14, 2009 - 07:16am PT
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The ancient Greeks gave us the logical process for "proof" thousands of years ago in their plane geometry.
Can anyone read this thread and say we have advanced?
Edit:
"But to end on a
more frivulous note; what do people who die during sex come back as?"
Lutherans
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jstan
climber
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Oct 14, 2009 - 07:59am PT
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What a wealth of excellent stuff in this thread.
"Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
Oct 13, 2009 - 04:52pm PT
jstan, I am lost in your generalizations. All I said was that I, lynne, am not perfect. That's why jesus is my best friend. He forgives me and encourages me to keep on keepin' on and uses my failures to grow me into all that he has in mind for me to be.
He also uses my failures to be more compassionate to others who also fail. To comfort them as he comforts me. To encourage them to look up and keep on as he does to me. That's all. Peace, lynne"
End Quote
This a reply to my post pointing out that Lynne all on her own decides that those who lynch others can't be christian but that she clearly considers herself still to be christian even " when not as close to Jesus" as she would like.
No generalizations here. I am pointing out her use of the word christian
is absent meaning.
She says the word because saying it makes her feel good.
Very like a security blanket.
Don't get me wrong. I think security blankets have their uses.
But they do damage if you cannot hold them up and say with a knowing smile, "Yeah. This is my security blanket."
Sooner or later every security blanket stops working. Not a big deal if you knew all along it was just a security blanket.
Whatever road we decide to take, it is always prudent first to look down that road a ways.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 14, 2009 - 11:12am PT
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Norton-
I commend you for rejecting arrogance and narrowness at the age of 5, but I think your logic was faulty. I too was told similar things and rejected them at about the same age. In my case I was living in Texas so I got the southern Baptist version which was "too bad about all the little children in China who are going to burn for eternity, because they never saw a missionary and got the message". I knew to the depths of my little being that could not possibly be true, but I didn't reject God. Rather, I saw through their ignorant and biased interpretations of God. Their God was way too small minded and human-like to be worthy of the name.
Then again, I never had religion pushed on me. My parents told me I could go to any church I wanted and make up my own mind. Hence I've always been interested in religion. Meanwhile I teach a course in Asian religions for our Asian Studies department and I've always observed that the students who are most antagonistic to religion are those who had it forced on them as children.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 14, 2009 - 11:53am PT
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Not typos. There are a wide range of values online. Here are a few references:
H. Erectus extant until ~ 40,000 years ago in East Asia
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus
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H. Erectus extant at 50,000 ya in East Asia
The species Homo erectus is thought to have diverged from Homo ergaster populations roughly 1.6 million years ago, and then spread into Asia. It was believed that Homo erectus disappeared as other populations of archaic Homo evolved roughly 400,000 years ago. Evidently, this is not the case. Recent studies into the complicated stratigraphy of the Java Homo erectus sites have revealed some surprising information. Researchers have dated the deposits thought to contain the fossils of H. erectus near the Solo River in Java to only 50,000 years ago. From http://anthropology.si.edu/HumanOrigins/ha/erec.html
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H. Erectus extant until ~ 70,000 ya
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
and
H. erectus lived from about 1.8 Ma to about 70,000 years ago (which would indicate that they were probably wiped out by the Toba catastrophe). Often the early phase, from 1.8 to 1.25 Ma, is considered to be a separate species, H. ergaster, or it is seen as a subspecies of H. erectus, Homo erectus ergaster. from the same page
and
from http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/species.htm
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H. Erectus extant until 200,000 ya (sorry, can't display the chart, but you can see it if you follow the link)
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Homo
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H. Erectus extant until ~ 250,000 years ago
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
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So, aside from the mention by the anthropology.si site (which says that it was formerly thought, but no longer) yours is the only reference for H. Erectus being extinct as long ago as 400,000 ya.
GO
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:12pm PT
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What does this have to do with the subject matter of this thread, fattrad?
Other than another display of narcissistic personality?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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Fatty, have you even met Mr Walling?
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jstan
climber
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:18pm PT
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Skip:
You know what you or I have done or have not done in our past lives isn't really the issue. I am raising the question as to what the word christian means when each of us gets to decide who is a christian and who isn't according to whatever criteria we want at a particular moment.
In that case does the word mean anything at all?
What do you think?
EDIT:
In order to reduce post count I want to ask Gobee a question relative to his post below.
"If YOUR God then you get to make up the rules!"
If god can make up any rules god can even change god's mind and change the rules.
How are we to be told when the rules have been changed?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:24pm PT
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"interesting about being judged. Law is not nice nor perfect.
Can god judge himself?"
If YOUR God then you get to make up the rules!
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:27pm PT
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jstan
Original word of this "Christ" comes from the Greek word "Christo".
And yes you do have a bonafide reason to investigate what these words mean.
Nothing worst than blind faith.
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:47pm PT
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Lynne,
Jesus is real? Corporations, LLC's etc. are not.
Scenario?
Porn actor a and b incorporate. US law may not allow for vicarious liability,
though the state of CA. does. a and b except money for sex which could
allow vicarious liability for prostitution upon their non-real entity status
but not individually?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:13pm PT
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Homo Erectus would be a great name for a gay porno.
It's always interesting when those with faith say "you are regecting God". I'd love it if God existed, if I experienced some acceptable proof I would totally accept him/her. I'd love eternal life. That's the rub. Religion uses those desires and fear of death to get people to believe what they tell them. How can all these different religions claim to have the truth about God when they all say different things? Maybe one of them is right, but you won't know until you die. I try to respect other's views but I take offense when religious dogma overrules reason and leads people to commit evil actions.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:18pm PT
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Those who wish may now take a short break.
Hollywood Squares:
These great questions and answers are from the days when ' Hollywood Squares' game show responses were spontaneous, not scripted, as they are now. Peter Marshall was the host asking the questions, of course..
Q. Paul, what is a good reason for pounding meat?
A. Paul Lynde (About fifteen minutes later): Loneliness!
Q. Do female frogs croak?
A. Paul Lynde: If you hold their little heads under water long enough.
Q. If you're going to make a parachute jump, at least how high should you be?
A. Charley Weaver: Three days of steady drinking should do it.
Q. True or False, a pea can last as long as 5,000 years.
A. George Gobel: Boy, it sure seems that way sometimes.
Q. You've been having trouble going to sleep. Are you probably a man or a woman?
A. Don Knotts: That's what's been keeping me awake.
Q. According to Cosmopolitan, if you meet a stranger at a party and you think that he is attractive, is it okay to come out and ask him if he's married?
A.. Rose Marie: No wait until morning.
Q. Which of your five senses tends to diminish as you get older?
A. Charley Weaver: My sense of decency..
Q. In Hawaiian, does it take more than three words to say 'I Love You'?
A. Vincent Price: No, you can say it with a pineapple and a twenty..
Q. What are 'Do It,' 'I Can Help,' and 'I Can't Get Enough'?
A. George Gobel: I don't know, but it's coming from the next apartment.
Q. As you grow older, do you tend to gesture more or less with your hands while talking?
A. Rose Marie: You ask me one more growing old question Peter, and I'll give you a gesture you'll never forget.
Q. Paul, why do Hell's Angels wear leather?
A. Paul Lynde: Because chiffon wrinkles too easily.
Q. Charley, you've just decided to grow strawberries. Are you going to get any during the first year?
A. Charley Weaver: Of course not, I'm too busy growing strawberries.
Q. In bowling, what's a perfect score?
A. Rose Marie: Ralph, the pin boy.
Q. It is considered in bad taste to discuss two subjects at nudist camps. One is politics, what is the other?
A. Paul Lynde: Tape measures.
Q. During a tornado, are you safer in the bedroom or in the closet?
A. Rose Marie: Unfortunately Peter, I'm always safe in the bedroom.
Q.. Can boys join the Camp Fire Girls?
A. Marty Allen: Only after lights out.
Q. When you pat a dog on its head he will wag his tail. What will a goose do?
A. Paul Lynde: Make him bark?
Q. If you were pregnant for two years, what would you give birth to?
A. Paul Lynde: Whatever it is, it would never be afraid of the dark.
Q. According to Ann Landers, is there anything wrong with getting into the habit of kissing a lot of people?
A. Charley Weaver: It got me out of the army.
Q. It is the most abused and neglected part of your body, what is it?
A. Paul Lynde: Mine may be abused, but it certainly isn't neglected.
Q. Back in the old days, when Great Grandpa put horseradish on his head, what was he trying to do?
A. George Gobel: Get it in his mouth.
Q. Who stays pregnant for a longer period of time, your wife or your elephant?
A. Paul Lynde: Who told you about my elephant?
Q. When a couple have a baby, who is responsible for its sex?
A. Charley Weaver: I'll lend him the car, the rest is up to him
Q. Jackie Gleason recently revealed that he firmly believes in them and has actually seen them on at least two occasions.
What are they?
A. Charley Weaver: His feet.
Q. According to Ann Landers, what are two things you should never do in bed?
A. Paul Lynde: Point and laugh
WE DON'T STOP LAUGHING BECAUSE WE GROW OLD, WE GROW OLD BECAUSE WE STOP LAUGHING!
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
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Fet -- but you won't know until you die
You just said you have no proof, yet now you're making up your own proof, that you won't know until you die.
You don't even know what's going to happen to you after destruction of your gross physical body and you're already making these asinine statements.
See how ridiculous you sound. And this simple observation has absolutely nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:33pm PT
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Yes Werner those are simple facts/observations.
I'm not so arrogant that I would tell everyone I know all and then belittle those that don't agree with me.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
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And how dare you say my body is gross!!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:43pm PT
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Sovereign means chief or highest; supreme in power, superior in position to all others.
There is no law above God, but there is a law in God.
God's Attributes
Holiness
Righteousness and Justice
Sovereignty
Eternality
Immutability
Omniscience
Omnipresence
Omnipotence
Love
Truth
Mercy
He never changes, He can't deny Himself, or He is always true to Himself.
That's why Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross to satisfy God's justice, and only one who is sinless could pay that price, other wise he would get what he deserved. But because He was the Son of God, He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures. So whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. God is still true to Himself and gives us grace and mercy! You could say He paid His own Price, we accept that by faith, and give thanks! All, I mean all of us, deserve God's wrath, but His grace suffices, His Rules, Thanks God!
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:56pm PT
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Exactly. Which is why I think the only fair way to define the term is to let people apply it to themselves as they see fit. After all, no-one but you, yourself, know the contents of your own heart.
Oh, and maybe Riley, if you happen to end up in the ICU with a heart attack!
GO
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