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dirtbag
climber
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"Death panels"?
Methinks Bamm Bamm = Dunce Dunce.
Either you are a right wing liar about the so called "death panels" or a stooge. Eiter way, please don't breed.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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But lets get back to basics:
Barack Obama was not born in this country.
He was created in a petri dish in Nazi Germany.
Raised in Communist Russia.
Radicalized by Al-Qaida.
To infiltrate this county and run for President.
So he could pass health care reform and kill us all with death panels.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Wow! A word of wisdom (its all about values) from Bob.
Have to agree that it is about the value of human life.
Which Liberals say is valueless up to the point you are born.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dirt wrote:Death panels"?
Methinks Bamm Bamm = Dunce Dunce.
At least a few pebbles are loose in the little boy brain.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Bob,
I think you state too much. Health care is a scarce commodity, and we simply don't have enough resources to insure that no one dies as soon as they do because they (or we) cannot afford giving them more health care. Every government-run and private health system in the world recognizes this.
In fact, in the United States, a person can get health care regardless of ability to pay. Those places may be more crowded, and the treatment less costly, but the essential services remain. I have many friends who did their internship and residency at USC/County Hospital in LA. It certainly is different from, say, Stanford Medical Center, but it is hardly incompetent care.
Your second point is the real issue: No one should go broke because they get sick. Ideally, I think most people would agree. It gets more problematic because, again, we are rationing a scarce commodity. What if the sickness is, in effect, a self-inflicted, recurring one? Put another way, should a person who engages in an activity that is more likely to lead to serious injury, say riding a motorcycle without a helmet, pay the same for health coverage as someone who doesn't? Is that just?
That's part of what we struggle with in the U.S. We have what is, in my opinion, an irrational system that makes the availability of affordable insurance dependant upon employment. We need to fix that. We also have a system of private and public health plans that have huge overhead, and cause unwarranted interference between patient and health care provider.
It's not at all clear to me that the administration's proposal does anything to fix this.
John
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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JUohn wrote: Put another way, should a person who engages in an activity that is more likely to lead to serious injury, say riding a motorcycle without a helmet, pay the same for health coverage as someone who doesn't? Is that just?
Then insurance for smokers, drinkers and over weight folks should be 20 times higher than what I pay as they have about a 20 times better chance of being sick with a long term illness than me.
Systems are not always fair and the one who play by the rules sometimes pay more.
The public option seems to be the best plan in my option...everyone who takes the option pays an amount into it and receives a basic health care plan.
I'm not a healthcare expert and think very few on this thread are...all the doctors I know say the current system is broken.
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Bamm_Bamm
Social climber
Out in the Wilderness looking for Dr. F
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So let me see if I get what Bob is saying.
"No, JE we should not make people pay for the activities they want to pursue. We should never allow people to save money by living healthy because we are going to make them pay for other people's smoking."
And...
The only answer (all others are greedy insurance scams) is "for the Government to get even more involved so they can screw things up totally."
Even better "The whole time we can allow trial lawyers to get rich over and over and over."
Oh boy, I can hardly wait. I want me some of that Obama care.
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apogee
climber
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"It's not at all clear to me that the administration's proposal does anything to fix this."
John, the 'administration' hasn't put forth any kind of clear proposal at all- that's a big part of the reason the media and right wing wackjobs (like Bamm Bamm & bluering and their panels) have been all over the board with ridiculous tale and stories. There are a few proposals bouncing around Congress, but none of them have party acceptance, let alone bipartisan support.
Obama was, once again, too patient (naive?) and believed that Congress would put something together that the obstructionist-at-all-cost Repugs would suddenly rally behind. Big mistake. He should have created a much stronger direction on reform much earlier on, with or without the Repugs. The cost: big confusion, and lost political momentum. If he loses on this one, or comes across with a very dilute solution, fattrad just might have a shot at dogcatcher in '12.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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this one could easily be a self fulfilling prophecy
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Like I said Bamm-Bamm a few of your pebbles are loose.
What kind of person uses Bamm-Bamm as a avatar?
Also...how do you have a debate on this issue when the other side still believes in WMD, Sadamm cause 9/11, Iraq is a just/holy war, Reagan didn't raise taxes/didn't increase the side of government and there are death panels??
You don't!
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apogee
climber
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bluering, drop the death panel bullsh*t, will ya? I expect that kind of Krap® from idjuts like Bamm Bamm, cchopper or suap, but you have demonstrated a far better ability to communicate thoughtfully (even if I vehemently disagree with you, or it is filled with epithets).
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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I wonder if this rig will make it to 10,000 posts, tis a modern miracle!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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BAM BAM RANTED:
So let me see if I get what Bob is saying.
"No, JE we should not make people pay for the activities they want to pursue. We should never allow people to save money by living healthy because we are going to make them pay for other people's smoking."
And...
The only answer (all others are greedy insurance scams) is "for the Government to get even more involved so they can screw things up totally."
Even better "The whole time we can allow trial lawyers to get rich over and over and over."
Oh boy, I can hardly wait. I want me some of that Obama care.
---
Kindly chart out your path for America in broad terms. No negatives or dismissals, simply what YOU would do to address our current problems.
JL
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Bamm_Bamm
Social climber
Out in the Wilderness looking for Dr. F
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WMD, Sadamm cause 9/11. Reagan didn't raise taxes/didn't increase the side of government and there are death panels??
What type of clown is so stupid he says in public that he believes in his heart this is what Republicans actually think?
Oh yeah, the clown we all so affectionatly know as Bob D'A.
If you are really this ignorant Bob you have no business talking politics to anyone.
EDIT: JL, Please chart out your path of all your visions of how and when you saw aliens from other universes.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Bamm Bamm wrote: No one should die just because Obama has some weird fetish to make the American people go in front of his death panels.
Here a start little man. Like I said...how do you debate with clowns like this.
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Bamm_Bamm
Social climber
Out in the Wilderness looking for Dr. F
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BOob,
One is sarcasm.
Yours is from your heart.
Bob, You are not even a good bull sh#t artist yet you paint it all over your body.
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