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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Man, some one hit a nerve on this thread, might hafta read 'em all!
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BLD
Social climber
CA
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A short story about 3 CLIMBERS of today
It was a hot, dry and sunny day in Hazzard County. Bo Duke was washing the General Lee when here comes his brother Luke Duke. "Hey Bo wanna go climbing this weekend?"
"Sure! Where to?"
"Yosemite!"
"Ok ill get the guide book and we can start SHOPPING for just the right route for us to climb."
“Here’s a good one.”
“Wow that looks cool! What’s it called?”
“THE GERBLE LAUNCHER!”
“Whooo Weeee! That’s gotta be a good one, what’s the gear?”
“UM pro to 7.”
“Cool I like em wide.”
“Ill buy a new super duper 7" expander cam if you will”.
“How much are they?’
“$199.00?”
“You gotta be off you rocker!”
“Not yet but I know them things are worth it so we wont deck climbing GERBLE LAUNCHER.”
“Your right uncle Jessie would just croak if we got hurt and couldn’t work on the farm. “
“What else should we do?”
“OOOO! Look at this one its called SOUTHERN BELL! It looks easy enough but the gear looks sparser than Roscoe Pico Trane’s smarts.”
“We could add sum gear”.
“No sir re Bo that’s not ethical.”
“Ethical ya mean like moon shine?”
“No Stupid it’s like something ya got inside ya.”
“Oh like a liver.”
“For get it. Look at this one KARMA.”
“I love cars.”
“Idiot.”
“Easy enough but the darn thing has an R/X rating.”
“Jeepers them old school boys were something else and brave too.”
“How about this one GROWING UP?”
Along comes Daisy Duke. “Hey boys what are ya'll up to?”
“Were going to Yosemite this weekend.”
“Wanna go?”
“Sure!”
“Whacha looking at there?’
“It’s a route on the south face of Half Dome”.
“Well you can forget that all those routes on the south face were put up in a way that only the first ascentionests would have the determination to get through them. Nobody wants to die being second.”
“Yah Yah I know but look at this one GROWING UP its got cracks to here (pointing to the guides topo) and just enough bolts to get you to the top without being well SOLOING with a rope hooked up to ya.” “Woo Weee boys lets start packin the General and get goin.”
Now a word from wise old Uncle Jessie:
Ya know now and then I think about now and then. And then was a whole different climbing world. We didn’t have guide books and super topos and such. Our gear was just made up from what ever we could steal from places like the black smith or off some old recked car. I remember one feller used the legs off some old stove just to scamper his way up the Captain. He didn’t even have a map. It’s like we were making it all up as we went along. As time went on we started using harnesses and sticky rubber on our shoes. Some folks thought that was cheating. Then came chalk like the kind them skinny Olympic gymnasts fellers used. That caused quite a ruckus. There were climbers chopping bolts and other ones putting them back in. Then some more chopping. All because the one feller wasn’t doing what the rest was doing. It came down to ethics. If ya came up to a rock that was unclimbed and you wanted to climb it and protect it you better do it ground up or you were in for a whoopin. That whoopin was so you would become ethical. Through the years all across the land climbers were changing there ways. Some were getting jobs and some were rap bolting. Some were even getting paid to climb. Some started wearing real tight pants that had lots of bright colors on em. At the same time all that climbing stuff was changing people were getting smarter about what the most important thing was. And that was to preserve our earth’s natural parts ya know like out croppings of rock and such. And it came time to accept a little change in the sport of climbing. See now a days we can predict the out come of some things. When you look at the impact that has been done to places like Yosemite. The old timer had a pretty heavy hand and changed Yosemite’s rocks for ever. The way they all went up em did allot of damage to the rocks. Lucky for the rocks and us people we had other people trying to make this happen less. If I recollect it was a few different fellers by the names Ray, Royal, Yavon and I think Doug ya Doug Robinson and there is more but I just can’t pullem out. They came up with some gadgets to go into cracks that made it safe and didn’t rough up the rocks. Then climbers started to look at trails that they would use and tried to make them well less impactful. Some even went out and bought hybrid vehicles just to be more green unlike my nephews in the General Lee. Ya see all this change is not a bad thing if the whole point and I mean the whole number one absolute god dam point is to preserve the rocks and the land. So don’t get in such a fuss over ethics unless ya'll think it’s unethical to be an earth lover. Well im goin back to my rockin chair on the porch and snuggle with my double barrel and sip a little moon shine. Be good and say hello to the misses.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Wtf! I go out and it's down to an hour between posts! Hey, let's not ease off like we've finally stumbled upon a grand unification theory that actually plays out on stone. It's still a long way to the top and a 1,000 posts - so get back to work you slackers. Remember, your children's future is being decided right here and if you don't have your say ad nauseum you'll have no one to blame but yourself when Fish steps in to decide their future for you.
And Bob, are you the conductor on this train or not? Gotta do better than this when the going gets steep...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Lot's of new people posting in this thread...
welcome!
moss hog
lost.hairrow
BLD
Sean Jones
BG
firegrunt
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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BLD that was brilliant!
And Bachar, where do you get all those awesome funk photos you keep posting? Always perfect.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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It's too late out here in east Finland, for me to think about this too deeply for tonight. But I'll be back to check up on all you depraved rock climbers tomorrow. Warren Harding is laughing in heaven tonight........
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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so hey, sean-
a topo would be a nice addition to this thread!
thanks in advance.
(hint)
re: The strangest thing so far is PTPP calling Doug shameful.
(smirk)
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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In the mold of "Wings of Steel"--a new quandry for the new millenium.
"Growing Up"
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Wouldn't it be wild if someone, inspired by the implications of Growing Up,
decided to make a statement about ground up ethics. But instead of doing
something destructive (like chopping Growing Up), they channeled their
energy into something positive.
Karma, one of the boldest routes ever, needs help. The route is deteriorating,
nobody sane should go near it.
Like a prize possession, it needs to be kept detailed. Left rotting,
up on blocks, it looks like nobody cares for it, or for what it represents.
That it doesn't have value.
So if you really have strong beliefs about this and you want to do something,
do something positive. A photo essay on your adventure of re-equipping
one of the wildest ever.
Now that would be cool.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Hey k-man,
Not a bad suggestion. I like the idea of something positive for a statement. Something for a new guard to cut a tooth on?
I don't know squat about that route. So how bold and bad is it?
When was the FA? And if no ones been on it, how does one know how deteriorated it is? I've clipped some pretty old gear in the past....in mud even.
Can't wait to see the TR!
Good morning to Yosemite. A place that we all dream about...
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Excellent suggestion, K-man. The K isn't for Karma by any chance?...
And you're right, Survival, never seen a photo, and there's practically no info about Karma, a very intriguing route. So while writing about the South Face I interviewed two of the guys from the FA. Here's that section, straight out of my article in R&I (hope this doesn't somehow violate my copyright ethics):
The next summer [1986], Dave Schultz, Ken Yager and Jim Campbell put up Karma, an unusual route that zig zags up the right side of the wall following intersecting dike systems.
“Schultz convinced me that the dike was huge, big enough that tourists walked down it from the top to take pictures,” says Ken Yager on a hot Yosemite evening. He smiled at being so naïve, “It turned out the dike was larger underneath than on top, thereby casting a large shadow. It looked bigger than it actually was.”
A crux pitch out the Yardarm, a piece of the dike that cuts across an overhanging section, is rated 5.11d X. “Dave kept sandbagging me by saying the next section was only 5.9 or 5.10,” Yager says. “When I was stuck, he’d say, ‘Oh, yeah, there is a little 5.11 move or two and then it gets easier.’ The runouts aren’t that bad. It’s just that the dike you’re traversing has a cord-slicing edge on it. I have never been so terrified on a route in my life.”
Dave Schultz says, “That is a nightmare. I’ll never go back. If you fall off the dike, every six inches there’s a razor-sharp crystal. One pitch I got 60, 70 feet off the belay, couldn’t stop. Finally there’s barely a stance. I had to lie down on the dike to drill. I could barely swing the hammer without knocking myself off. It took me six and a half or seven hours to drill one bolt.”
Schultz has moved on to Hollywood as a rigger, invented a way to fly actors and cameras on steel cable, and is on the phone from a limo.
He pauses, remembering, “It’s worse to follow, with that raking, Ginsu-knife edge. That’s why I named it that. Your karma has to be good to get through it. We didn’t fall.” Karma is still unrepeated.
It would be a HUGE public service to reinstall Karma. 'Course I'm not sure I'd volunteer to crowbar lazy-Dave's lyin'-down bolt placement on lead...
Who'se up for the coveted second ascent of Karma? Strike a blow for our cherished ground-up tradition? Anyone?...
Maybe, just maybe, this glimpse helps to show that the South Face is an unusual and different place. Unique. Not just hard, but serious in unexpected ways.
Possibly -- just possibly -- the realities there might suggest to you, too, stepping beyond your lifetime of cherished ground-up ethics into a strange and uncertain new world, a place you never thought you'd find yourself. Until now.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Wow...I just about p#ssed myself just trying to picture Schultz in that position. Yikes.
Doug, forgive me for playing the devils advocate over here, because I have always had respect for you and your writings. You do realize of course that your writing is part of the reason so many of us feel strongly about this.
It's interesting how you can turn Dave's experience into a commercial for Growing Up. Of course Growing Up will get more ascents! It's human nature that the largest group will gravitate to the route with the most protection on it. That doesn't necessarily mean that rap bolting Sean's route is justified. Razor crystals on Karma wouldn't be changed by rap bolting, busting them off with a hammer would change them.
Your sarcasm about the "coveted" second ascent isn't in keeping with your usual gentlemanly tone. I know it's kind of fun and we just can't help ourselves. So here goes;
You're right, SFHD is probably the first cliff to be serious in unexpected ways..... Jeez, how's that for sarcasm? So what we need is a LOT of rap bolted routes up there!
Edit: By the way Doug, I really do like a good discussion. And to be fair I will most definitely scratch up a copy of that mag and read the article. You have always written well.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Wow, holy buckets that's beautiful!
Hey chickenskinner, are you there? I didn't get a response from you about facelift. Are there some you're catching up on?
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Hi Bruce,
Don't worry, I will send you a confirmation this weekend. You have camping.
Here is another.
Route finding was not a problem, it was painfully obvious.
Ken
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Thanks Ken!
Awesome shots. Hope you have more...
And I'm glad you snapped them before some tourist with a camera strolled into view from above.
And thanks to Survival for your truly gentlemanly response. This discussion really feels a lot richer when the sarcasm and the sensitive personal revelations can coexist. Of course sometimes it isn't easy to tell which of those is being laid down.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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man: You look great, really in shape!
Woman: Are you saying I was fat before?
DR: Say's anything
Touchy people: How dare you say that. It's against something sacred.
Karma: If nobody bothered to climb it EVER, after the first ascent. Why should anybody spend time and money re-bolting it, unless they planned to sack up and do a second ascent.
Also Post up. Is the rap-assisted rebolting of Southern Belle OK? and would that be fine with Karma too? (Even, do the traversing nature of the route that some new anchors might have to be drilled to get to all the route?
Would want next good samaritans who did public service for the sake of future climbers to face their own sh#t-storm.
Note: People bowing and scraping to leave all future ascents to the best possible imaginable climbers are cuckholders. Taken to it's extremes, we might as well establish a hotline to Caldwell and the Hubers.
(Ironically, blamelessly Caldwell has benefitted from the retro-bolting/power bolting/moral lapses alleged in the initial attempts on the Dihedral, Muir and Lurking Fear {not sure if Steve added bolts or had moral lapses, but at least paved the way in vision}
Peace
Karl
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Kman;
Wouldn't it be wild if someone, inspired by the implications of Growing Up,
decided to make a statement about ground up ethics. But instead of doing
something destructive (like chopping Growing Up), they channeled their
energy into something positive.
Karma, one of the boldest routes ever, needs help. The route is deteriorating,
nobody sane should go near it.
Like a prize possession, it needs to be kept detailed. Left rotting,
up on blocks, it looks like nobody cares for it, or for what it represents.
That it doesn't have value.
So if you really have strong beliefs about this and you want to do something,
do something positive. A photo essay on your adventure of re-equipping
one of the wildest ever.
Now that would be cool. Kman
This is just about the best post in this whole mess. Too often these days we tend to beat down the other guys accomplishments rather than raise our own bar.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Doug, I agree. The name calling on some of these threads is pretty over the top. I'm impressed this one has kept such quality over a pretty long haul...
Ken, thank you SOOO much for those amazing pictures. One of the only things this thread has been short on, great pictures. I guess if it was the other side of this boulder we were talking about we'd be buried in great pictures!
Incredible how I can get scared looking at a picture from 3,000 miles away......
Edit:Tradmanclimbs, there are lots of good posts in "this whole mess."
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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holy shizzle! Ginshu-knife indeed!! But what a feature to define a line. That thing is amazing... if I climbed that hard it would be difficult to resist.
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