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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 13, 2009 - 07:52pm PT
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jstan, I am lost in your generalizations. All I said was that I, lynne, am not perfect. That's why jesus is my best friend. He forgives me and encourages me to keep on keepin' on and uses my failures to grow me into all that he has in mind for me to be.
He also uses my failures to be more compassionate to others who also fail. To comfort them as he comforts me. To encourage them to look up and keep on as he does to me. That's all. Peace, lynne
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 13, 2009 - 07:55pm PT
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Ghost you are right and your cat story made me laugh this morning. "A merry heart doeth good like medicine....."
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 13, 2009 - 08:02pm PT
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jstan, trying to catch up on all the posts as I have to go out of town. I think even if we had no language we would still hear God in our heart, soul and mind and being.
Dr. F, God made you unique and special Dude. There has never been or ever will again be a Craig like you. God is SO not to big to care about just you, Dude, and to listen to you and to talk to you. He made you and he loves you mucho ! Word !
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 13, 2009 - 08:33pm PT
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Finally, about this whole lynne hearing jesus issue. I had to ponder and think about what to say.....because even my brother who is a christian questions me on this.
"So what did God tell you today, lynne ?", he says.
When Dan died 20 months ago I had to make sure jesus was real. I mean I thought he was for a long time. But when your best friend has the power to save your other best friend and doesn't ......gotta question what up DUDE?
So beginning Jan 1, 2008 I spent at least 1-2 plus hours each Early morning reading jesus words and talking to him. I thought and pondered and listened as I looked out the window and saw the black night turn into grey dawn and finally a day.
I poured out my hurts, I yelled at him for what could have been, for help and for answers. I called it like I saw it. A "friend" totally letting a friend down. Like you prepare for an incredible ascent of El Cap with yo best friend ..... haul all the sheee to the base and the early morning of......no friend. Dude bailed.
That's what I felt.....but worse.
So early morning after early morning I talked and listened. Not only did Dan die, but my whole freaking life was tumbling down around me. One of the worst ever times in financial history.
So I listened.....began to hear him. Not always easy to discern. Jesus is a quiet talker. Sometimes he asks you to do stuff that take a leap of faith. And if you want to grow in communication, you need to take that leap. Like in any relationship.
My jesus is often called a shepherd. In the n.t. John 10:27 says,
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
You can take it to the bank, it's True.
Sometimes jesus just speaks quickly and you can hear him quite easily. But an overall life pattern, if yo want to hear what he has to say, you need to take time to listen. Marriages would benefit from this.....Listen, listen, listen and love, love, love.
lynnie
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 13, 2009 - 09:40pm PT
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Lynne, I don't think any of the atheist persuasion here has a problem with your personal Jesus, because you're focusing on the New Testament and its celebration of the love and benevolence that makes life worth living. There is no argument against those things, but no God is needed for good to be good.
The problem comes from people who say exactly the same stuff as you but kinda sorta don't really mean it in their private lives. The ones who use Jesus as an all-purpose get-out-of-jail-free card.
So when an atheist hears a hallelujia choir, there's always going to be a little uneasiness.
"Too many people have lied in the name of Christ
For anyone to heed the call.
So many people have died in the name of Christ
That I can't believe it all."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX5e0KQB8mU
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Oct 13, 2009 - 09:50pm PT
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"I'm not certain Deuteronomy is the book where JHVH is first located but
I think that's were I remember it being. JHVH errors were or still are noted
in the above book I read 2 decades ago."
Assuming other writings were not lost, JHVH first appears in Exodus 3:14.
JHVH translates to "I am"
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 13, 2009 - 09:51pm PT
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Cintune -- "but no God is needed for good to be good."
That is the most asinine statement anyone can make. Anyone
Such a statement is to make you the Ultimate judge and authority and directly/indirectly creating an unconscious veiled attempt to become supreme authority yourself.
Thus proves that god can not be eliminated.
Even a simply monkey can see thru that .....
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 13, 2009 - 10:16pm PT
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Anyone? Even Sri Ouroubindobabaloomalong? Cause, y'know, if he said it, it might be okay.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 13, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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Werner you hit the nail to the head no tie off needed with that last one!!!
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MH2
climber
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Oct 13, 2009 - 10:34pm PT
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some speculations:
Religions most plausibly come from very early childhood experiences when we were taken care of by our parents and relations. In later life we carry within us a strong sense that when something bad happens someone will take care of us.
Religions may also reflect those putative over-arching neurons in our brains which allow us to connect fragmented experiences into a larger whole. Science looks at the small and particular but the small and particular eventually adds up to something more. Maybe there will be another great leap, or just fitful progress, in human awareness/consciousness/whatever and today's religions will be seen as precursors to that ability to grasp what we now perceive dimly.
Religions have great practical value for small groups of humanity, giving the group a powerful reason to survive and prosper, so religion has utility which may make the truth or falsity beside the point.
I'm not sure why jstan is impressed by a 5 year-old rejecting dogma since a lot of 5 year-olds have already done that several times before breakfast, on a typical day.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 13, 2009 - 10:40pm PT
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some speculations:
That's just you rejecting God?
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 13, 2009 - 11:01pm PT
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Understanding the underlying reasons for people inventing gods in the first place, more like. Certainly rejecting the starry-eyed Bible thumping, though. If it floats your boat, fine, whatever. Nothing universal about any of it, though. Just a bunch of cultural constructs that have a strong appeal to some people, and others, not so much.
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MH2
climber
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Oct 13, 2009 - 11:07pm PT
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some speculations:
That's just you rejecting God?
Hell, no!
I sure wish I could use W.H. Hardy's ploy.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 13, 2009 - 11:08pm PT
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You're still playing God the Supreme authority cintune.
Imitating ......
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Oct 13, 2009 - 11:57pm PT
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Whoa, dejaaavuuu! I believe this show has been on before.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:32am PT
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And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Talking about biting the hand that feeds us, everything we have is a gift! It seems people would rather believe in anything but God?
I know that here is no Eden for all of us but we need to show the love of God to each other.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 14, 2009 - 12:42am PT
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"5, I mean 3"
there really is some good stuff in this thread. Jstan really did it out of the park and I was im
intrigued by Werner's post shortly thereafter. Lots of other stuff, too!
Anyone can call themslves whatever they want, but I think it's stretchings a wee bit to, because the kkkers call themselves Christians, use them as an example of all that is wrong with Christianity.
But to end on a
more frivulous note; what do people who die during sex come back as?
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wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:05am PT
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imitating... a gesture of friendship
aping... a gesture of, hmmm, well I don't want to stir the pot too much
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Homer
Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:13am PT
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We have finite perceptions of an infinite reality, and we don't understand, but we want to understand, we need to understand, but we don't understand. It's OK, our "rational" minds are just slightly maladapted that way. Might be healthier to just look the other way, or just believe some finite story about infinity, whatever works for you.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 14, 2009 - 01:36am PT
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Over the next couple hundred years this crazy cult, one among many, gained political power and established itself as the "wish fulfillment center" of Western culture. Other equally irrational belief systems developed elsewhere at other times. Thanks to literacy and publishing, these things perpetuated themselves and came into infamous and unavoidable conflict. So here we are today.
---
What's missing here is that this, too, is a belief, possibly no less or no more irrational than those you gloss.
What happens when you chuck the beliefs? Are you still there? Is the sun still hot? Is the sky still "up" in the vault? What then is your experience?
JL
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