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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
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Oh, Jeremy knows of whom I speak....
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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I've been to 3 out of the four. I kinda see your point, but in a squinty biased sorta way.
All folk are capable. Who holds the reins of "civilization" determines outcomes.
All else is just talk at the Deli table.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:44pm PT
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I would be impressed because it is an interesting, if difficult, criticism, many arguments which you might find sympathy for... and a timely criticism too, given the play that Justice Steven's descent of the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission case
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/citizens-united-v-federal-election-commission/
in particular, Steven's has argued recently that the matter of "fair play" is an important foundation upon which elections are conducted, but that the access to unlimited resources to one faction of the electorate, e.g. corporations, might tip the balance in their favor as other factions would not have access to the same resources.
This is essentially the same issues raised in the Marcuse criticism, which has to do with the corruption of the concept of tolerance when it is institutionalized. It is about privilege, whether that of the elite, or that of the majority... which also parallels many of Justice Stevens' thoughts as described in recent articles, for instance:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/us/28memo.html
Marcuse's criticism could even be thought as part of the intellectual foundations of the Newt Gingrich "Contract with America" movement, which rejected the historic role of the minority party in the House, essentially realizing that the movement could never succeed without rejecting the prevailing culture, a culture which institutionalized the status quo, that is, you'll never get along if you just go along. Newt turned that all on its head, and won the first Republican majority of the House in nearly 50 years...
So, what did you get out of Marcuse's article?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 12:11am PT
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This is essentially the same issues raised in the Marcuse criticism, which has to do with the corruption of the concept of tolerance when it is institutionalized. It is about privilege, whether that of the elite, or that of the majority... which also parallels many of Justice Stevens' thoughts as described in recent articles, for instance:
Ed, this is the problem with do-gooder commies. They sell you a 'nice' an d 'tolerant' bill of goods to achieve their elitist control over the masses.
And yeah, the right wing is equally capable. It's a battle between fascism and communism.
Or to put it more simply, elitism. Or even more simply, politicians suck!
Since it's my opinion that people have been blinded by the 'cultural revolution', I fight the left. They break down the family, religion, and, hence, the glue that binds our traditional culture.
I will grant you that going too far the other way is equally unwanted and equally dangerous.
So, what did you get out of Marcuse's article?
Closet-communism in the guise of tolerance. The promotion of 'tolerance' and the suppression of anybody who disagreed with their definition of 'tolerance'.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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ALL suits are suits, man. Red or Blue(no offense).
They want to have their way. Elitists? Look around.
Look again. Reconsider.
We're just the Proles to them, man. ALL OF THEM.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 12:22am PT
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Skully, I appreciate that. But read the Constitution of this great country. I'm sure you realize our founders realized this dilemma.
They made probably the most liberating document ever, and in doing so, they restricted our gov't!
Sure, it would take a lot for commies or fascists to dominate us, but f*#king stop and pay attention to what's going on once in a while. And try to do it with an open lens, with no blinders on.
We are on a bad path. We need to vote smartly with this kind of crap in mind. Most Americans have blinders on....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:29am PT
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so what's wrong with communism? I mean in the abstract sense. As opposed to capitalism, for instance...
..from your comments above, you seem to be intolerant to things that would change the status quo as you know and like it... even if that status quo denies individuals their liberty?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:31am PT
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And I will do as I wish. Even if it kills me.
Alas, I am but 1 monkey, in a vast jungle.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 12:40am PT
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so what's wrong with communism? I mean in the abstract sense. As opposed to capitalism, for instance...
..from your comments above, you seem to be intolerant to things that would change the status quo as you know and like it... even if that status quo denies individuals their liberty?
Well, Ed, let's start with the staus quo of the most dominant country that ever existed in the past 100 years. Sure you can say the last 50, because the Nazis were pretty good, but we kicked their asses through what? Industrial dominance and innovation. Same with the Russkies.
My point? We live in a 'system' that promotes and even encourages innovation and growth. Communism stifles it.
And is the staus quo so bad? "progressives" (the new neo-comies) always make things seem as if they change them, they'll be better. Change is good, under the guise of 'progressing'.
People forget history though. "progress" needs to be defined and laid out bfeore you follow it. Where are we going? What is the goal?
That was the beauty of our founders. They laid it out beautifully. AND they put it in writing.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:43am PT
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Fear is the mindkiller.........
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:47am PT
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Unfortunately, comparative advantage in the 21st century is going to revolve heavily around national infrastructures and one advantage China has in that competition is a fairly decisive [legacy] command + control capability from it's version of Communism. Being 50 competing states didn't matter much over the last century, but in this one it leads to a form of economic and political gridlock that poses enormous hurdles to necessary upgrades of military, industrial, transportation, energy, civil, and municipal infrastructures. It's not unlike GM with the overhead of a dozen brands trying to compete with Toyota with two.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 12:48am PT
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Have anything intelligent to add, Crowley??? Or maybe we should just call each other dipshits....
EDIT: How about some English, healy! WTF did you say, China owns us?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:51am PT
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Maybe you. I like Western stuff. Except for Chinese food.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 12:51am PT
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Unfortunately, comparative advantage in the 21st century is going to revolve heavily around national infrastructures and one advantage China has in that competition is a fairly decisive [legacy] command + control capability from it's version of Communism.
So we need to bring manufacturing BACK to the U.S.???
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 12:56am PT
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Three come to mind easily.
Balancing the budget.
Fixing the health care crisis in America.
Ending the wars.
Interesting. And I agree, mostly. How do you propose to do this? Is healthcare really a "crisis" in this country?
Your other 2 points have merit though.
EDIT: Wars?
I would leave Iraq afetr establishing a secured airbase.
Go medevil on the Taliban for about 6 months. Drop the current ROE, and let troops kill people they deem dangerous.
Spending? Stop it! Pretty f*#king easy. Especially as we gear up for more CO2 regulation from the FED that will kill jobs.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 01:01am PT
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If I get hurt or sick, I'm done.
How's that for a crisis?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 30, 2010 - 01:03am PT
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Healthcare is another systemic 'infrastructure' issue - it is crushingly anti-competitive to have U.S. corporations responsible for baseline healthcare of workers. From a comparative advantage perspective it's as insane as dicing up the base healthcare system into a thousands of profit centers each with it's own administrative and technological overhead. Stupid in a word and you won't get jobs back into the U.S. without universal, single-payer healthcare. Period.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 01:29am PT
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The military cost Americans a trillion dollars per year Bleuy...
More, when you include special War funding.
This is where the cuts should be made.
If you want to de-fund the military, we'd have to 'come home' and play defense. I don't mind that, but with that comes other stuff....that I'm not really against. But try to consider what you're really saying. I trust you do.
EDIT:
Healthcare is another systemic 'infrastructure' issue - it is crushingly anti-competitive to have U.S. corporations responsible for baseline healthcare of workers.
And the cure is for gov't to take over?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 02:44am PT
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Balancing the budget.
Fixing the health care crisis in America.
Ending the wars.
Clearly a commie agenda - ;-)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 30, 2010 - 02:51am PT
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"From each according to his means,
to each according to his needs"
Isn't that pretty much what Jesus said on the mount?
in one book it's dissed
but if in another it's to die for
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