Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 01:47am PT
|
This whole thing just reeks of nonsense... They have 20,000+$$$$ of new money and he's getting dental implants in a third-world country where they were recently attacked? WOT?
I wonder if I send them just $2000usd if they can broker the release of a Nigerian prince's fortune while they are down there.
|
|
nah000
Mountain climber
canuckadia
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 09:56am PT
|
in response to DMT's:
I so don't get the open hostility towards these people.
my guess is there are two things going on here:
the first part being transference of emotion.
to this point, the three travellers seem to take no responsibility for their own decisions. everything is the fault of the locals. the sister, who if i remember correctly wrote the initial report, says things like: everybody "knows" that you don't hand over documentation, we asked for permission to camp and were given it, the couple had been travelling similarly for months without incident, etc.
everyone has a person/persons/nation/etc in their iife who they are annoyed with and, similar to this, is always a victim. and to top it all off these people managed to turn, what appears to be, a similar attitude into +$25k so far.
and so the second part is likely jealousy. who hasn't wanted or doesn't want to go on a trip like this? the couple had pulled off one hell of an adventure to this point.
i also want to point out that the intention behind the above "critique", is not to pile on the travellers. i have travelled with my own vehicle from alaska to panama and back to canada. one of my worst fears was that i'd make a mistake and something relatively catastrophic would happen to me and/or my partner and i'd be blamed for/ abandoned to my own suffering. this type of travelling is similar to a lot of climbing/mountaineering in that the general public has a pretty mixed opinion regarding its "acceptability". so i have a lot of sympathy for these three. sure, it appears, they made some mistakes: who doesn't? i have infinitely more respect for someone doing something, then for those sitting behind a keyboard pontificating on the "unruly natives" or the "arrogant american travellers". this is not a movie and from what i've read, i suspect that this is a very grey situation with truths in all directions.
and so the second exciting adventure these people are getting to experience is the viral nature of the net. sure it can raise you $25k. it can also get you a lot of butthurt judgment from people who ultimately know little more than diddley, regarding the entirety of the situation.
so the take away for others planning a similar trip in todays world is that you need to have a media/internet strategy along with your insurance and extra truck parts - haha.
because my bet is if these people had this to do over again, they wouldn't allow family/ friends to post something that was intended to document losses/events/etc for official purposes and was written very shortly after the event. i also suspect that they would have written a somewhat different account [at least in tone] if they'd had a little more time for psychological recovery and introspection.
|
|
Ian Westmoreland
climber
Jackson
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
|
Criticism falls into two contradictory categories (both bullshit):
1. Parts of Peru are full of crazy bloodthirsty savages. If you there without an escort, or at least without an escort, you're stupid and deserve everything that happens to you.
2. Peru is perfectly safe, full of well-meaning but ignorant, non-Internet connected peasants. None of them would ever hurt a fly, unless the fly deserved it. If anything like this happens to you, you must have totally provoked it.
Clearly Ian Westmoreland is a category 1 guy.
Actually I am neither. I feel the villagers are simply human beings capable of anything and as such it is foolish to underestimate them. On top of this I feel the Wolfrom's were ignorant by not knowing enough about the local area they were traveling through.
But I don't understand. He blames them for being "foolish and ignorant" in stopping in that area, but also attacks them for mentioning it on their blog. I guess he wants them to keep it secret so that the next "foolish an ignorant" traveler will make the same mistakes.
No, not for stopping but for not cooperating with the locals when asked to do so. It is easy to find out a Presidente is a village leader or mayor and it is also easy to find out by law they do have the right to ask for your documents. As such, yes it was foolish on their part for not knowing this and their reaction to it, ie fleeing, shows ignorance.
I do want them to share their story with the world, hell man I could careless if they get a multi-million dollar movie deal out of it. However, I feel they should report their story as responsible travelers not innocent victims who did nothing wrong and were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. This sends a bad message especially when you add in all the other factors. If the Wolfrom's handled reporting their story differently and more responsibly I am sure they would not be under nearly as much scrutiny.
These things are important to me because the Wolfrom's do reflect upon a community I happen to care about. On top of this they have the responsibility to set an example for those who come after them.
Cheers
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
|
it is also easy to find out by law they do have the right to ask for your documents.
Its also easy to get bad advice or misunderstand the advice or just have a bad day.
The sister is the one who wrote the report. She did not have hardly any of that type travel experience. She wrote the report directly after the trauma. She wrote it for the police which is why it includes the property values. They goofed when they cross posted it. OMG.. those sutpid arrogant beotches.
I agree with the advice above. One doesn't just need a travel guide in countries like Peru, one needs a media relations person.
|
|
pat
Trad climber
estes park
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
|
Agreed John. Full disclosure, I have a nano puff. Am I going to hell?
|
|
hossjulia
Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
|
Sh#t happens, NOT ONE of us was there, the direction this thread took is just plain stupid!
Make Ass-umptions long enough, yup..........
|
|
Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
|
If you need dental implants you are past the root canal stage as the tooth and associated root have been removed. Something does not compute.
|
|
slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
|
Dingus: I so don't get the open hostility towards these people. Truly don't get it.
Riley: Dingus - not hostile at all - travel is my life
Riley on Jan 5: Best of all - it was written from the perspective of an ignorant, selfish bitch, who had been in the country for a few days. .. ..
Nope, not hostile at all.
|
|
slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
|
And then posting "unconfirmed gossip". Awesome.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
|
If you get beat up and your sh#t stolen when TRAVELING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY, there is nobody to blame but yourself.
STAY THE FUK HOME if you don't know what you are getting into and can't deal with the consequences.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
|
Its not gossip if you are telling what happened to yourself. It may be a lie, but that is different from gossip.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
|
Getting weird????? heh heh heh... More like beeeen weird. But yep.. the taco goes through stages where the angst seems to be heavy for awhile. Just like life. America is weird right now. Major angst. But then a recession will do that.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
|
Or during elections.. haha..
wish that weren't so.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
|
America is suffering a lot of angst...... Stupid angst-ridden Americans....
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
|
Riley.. some of what you wrote was over the top. You were tooled in Yosemite for drunk driving, yet you immediately attacked them for drinking and driving. You smelled a rat, but you went overboard in the way you questioned everything. I still say it was miscommunication that led to their beating.
Besides, my comment was not directed at you. So why take everything personally. eh..
|
|
Ian Westmoreland
climber
Jackson
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
|
Its also easy to get bad advice or misunderstand the advice or just have a bad day.
true enough man, true enough.
The sister is the one who wrote the report. She did not have hardly any of that type travel experience. She wrote the report directly after the trauma. She wrote it for the police which is why it includes the property values. They goofed when they cross posted it. OMG.. those sutpid arrogant beotches.
Well, if you want to call them that it is your opinion. Stupid arrogant beotches isn't what I would use but whatever.
Look bottom line, what would you say if somebody came and took a dump in your favorite climbing spot. Right there where you like to set up at. I am sure it would upset you and as a result you would get on a discussion forum where people were talking about who would and why they would take a dump there in the first friggin' place. And then perhaps you might then discuss how you and or the community at large might put a stop to people crapping where you like to climb. No!?
And hey the original story (police report/whatever) was posted on the Wolfrom's blog so Jennifer had to of had their approval to do that. What is wrong exactly with me pointing out it was a hasty decisions on their part to do that?
It all comes down to decisions (personal, family, friends, yours, mine, ect ect)...and the result of those decisions. Don't we call this responsibility for your own actions? That is, if your are responsible and make responsible decisions.
I agree with the advice above. One doesn't just need a travel guide in countries like Peru, one needs a media relations person.
Go public with a crazy story and have people you know (family/friends) make that viral on the internet and yes you may very well need a media advisor.
Cheers
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
|
Stupid arrogant beotches isn't what I would use but whatever.
that was sarcasm on my part because of the bashing they had gotten. I guess its true that sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
climber
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
|
Sarcasm represents another dimension. It cannot be adequately expressed by text. Innovation will be required.
|
|
Ian Westmoreland
climber
Jackson
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
|
Sarcasm represents another dimension. It cannot be adequately expressed by text. Innovation will be required.
Which is why I am sticking to the facts and information, then I base my opinion on these facts from a stand point of personal experience. After that I make up my mind what is truth based on everything plus a fair share of human logic tossed in. As a result it is not possible for me to read something, one thing, on the internet and believe it to be fact or the truth.
Cheers
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Jan 12, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
|
Ian Westmorland knows a little about fixing sprinklers, but not much else.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!