Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
|
Jaysus Chief lighten up. I'm on your side. When I said it was a trivial matter, all I meant was that it was just sort of a coincidence that both dudes were born in towns the same name. Lighten up.
But if you indeed want to carry it farther...
And the one father, when collecting his son's medal, railed personally against Clinton, I would think that would have been in very poor, indeed, bad, taste. He could have vented his spleen elsewhere, instead of sullying the occasion.
And I would still think the same if it happened to any president, including Dubya. It should be a solemn occasion, but this father felt the need to make some sort of personal statement. In my eyes, and perhaps only mine, he dishonored his late son. There are other channels he could have taken.
But again Chief, lighten up (and no, to pre-empt you, I never lost a son in conflict, but I think that I would have the decorum to honor such a medal ceremony without trying to make an inane statement to the POTUS.) However, perhaps this father felt the need to do it. Bad taste and judgment IMO.
And considering how it seems you misunderstand my posts, I await a blast of... from you.
And no I have never served in the services. A strike against me in your eyes I suppose.
(NB How about a volunteer EMT on SARs, does that give me any credence in your eyes? I don't think so. It seems, and I could be wrong, that if one has not worn an US military uniform, that one is not worthy to comment on such issues).
If you really think so Chief. Sad.
(But I hope you don't think such.)
PS, as I said, I am on your side with the LA issue, don't turn me against you.
Ooops, am I being to self-sensitive with this one???
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
|
I think it's cute that people think LeMond didn't dope. The guy was getting dropped in the mountains (even by the sprinters!!!) in the 89 Giro, rode a horrible time trial, then suddenly got some shots for "anemia" and "B12" and roared back to a podium finish.
I remember someone else who got dropped on a hard climb and miraculously came roaring back the next day to dominate...a testosterone patched Floyd Landis in the TDF.
LeMond saw not only his stature as THE american road bike guy get diminished as Lance began his reign, but he also saw his name disappear from the gear (IIRC, LeMond bikes was bought by Trek, who then all but dropped any mention of LeMond because his name no longer sold bikes). If anyone has an axe to grind...
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
|
Again, why does it matter if LA is a D-bag or not? Does it matter if he's a good father or husband to any of you? Who gives a crap if he "cheated" or not except the other riders who might not have cheated(seems unlikely)? Who cares if he lies about taking drugs? It shows a lack of moral character? Sure... But again so what?
He's a guy that still rides a bike faster than any of us here. That's it. Entertainment.
You want to look at elitist morally corrupt pricks that really do hurt everyone with their actions, look at politicians anywhere.
So why some seem really upset about LA's drug use simply confounds me.
Calling for him to be arrested and imprisoned(or worse) just baffles me....
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
|
From a forum on...
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/paul-kimmage-defense-fund
Just ask Emma O'Reilly, a masseuse on the US Postal Service team when Armstrong was leader. She had a front-row seat and saw how he and the team operated. She used make-up to cover-up Armstrong's syringe bruises. She helped ferry drug packages and delivered them in person to Armstrong. At one point, he turned to her and said: "Now, Emma, you know enough to bring me down."
A few years later, O'Reilly contributed to a book in which she recounted what she had seen. Armstrong's legal team went into overdrive. They brought her to court. Armstrong publicly called her "an alcoholic and a prostitute". They silenced her. As she said: "Lance tried to make my life a living hell. There was intimidation, bullying and stress."
Taco Standers, I do not know if there is truth to this, and perhaps then I should not be posting/repeating it... but it sort of rings true.
I posted earlier (much earlier) on this thread that Kimmage was bullied by Armstrong (something like "you are not worth the chair you are sitting in"), and I still believe it.
Armstrong comes across, to me at least, as a bully and egotist.
And he still has far more money hidden away (from his cheating, it appears) than all of us Taco Standers put together.
And some of you idolize this guy?
|
|
Jaytee
Trad climber
U.K.
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
|
Elcap, don't you think if your accusations re: Greg Lemond held any weight, then USADA would be after him with the same relentless ferocity they applied to LA and US Postal?
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
|
Open Letter to Pat McQuaid from Greg LeMond
Thu, 10/25/2012 - 2:31am by Andy Shen
Greg LeMond posted this to his Facebook timeline this evening. Please pass it around. If you have a blog or a site take the copy and post it.
Can anyone help me out? I know this sounds kind of lame but I am not well versed in social marketing. I would like to send a message to everyone that really loves cycling. I do not use twitter and do not have an organized way of getting some of my own "rage" out. I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in telling Pat McQuaid to f##k off and resign. I have never seen such an abuse of power in cycling's history- resign Pat if you love cycling. Resign even if you hate the sport.
Pat McQuaid, you know damn well what has been going on in cycling, and if you want to deny it, then even more reasons why those who love cycling need to demand that you resign.
I have a file with what I believe is well documented proof that will exonerate Paul.
Pat in my opinion you and Hein are the corrupt part of the sport. I do not want to include everyone at the UCI because I believe that there are many, maybe most that work at the UCI that are dedicated to cycling, they do it out of the love of the sport, but you and your buddy Hein have destroyed the sport.
Pat, I thought you loved cycling? At one time you did and if you did love cycling please dig deep inside and remember that part of your life- allow cycling to grow and flourish- please! It is time to walk away. Walk away if you love cycling.
As a reminder I just want to point out that recently you accused me of being the cause of USADA's investigation against Lance Armstrong. Why would you be inclined to go straight to me as the "cause"? Why shoot the messenger every time?
Every time you do this I get more and more entrenched. I was in your country over the last two weeks and I asked someone that knows you if you were someone that could be rehabilitated. His answer was very quick and it was not good for you. No was the answer, no, no , no!
The problem for sport is not drugs but corruption. You are the epitome of the word corruption.
You can read all about Webster's definition of corruption. If you want I can re-post my attorney's response to your letter where you threaten to sue me for calling the UCI corrupt. FYI I want to officially reiterate to you and Hein that in my opinion the two of your represent the essence of corruption.
I would encourage anyone that loves cycling to donate and support Paul in his fight against the Pat and Hein and the UCI. Skip lunch and donate the amount that you would have spent towards that Sunday buffet towards changing the sport of cycling.
I donated money for Paul's defense, and I am willing to donate a lot more, but I would like to use it to lobby for dramatic change in cycling. The sport does not need Pat McQuaid or Hein Verbruggen- if this sport is going to change it is now. Not next year, not down the road, now! Now or never!
People that really care about cycling have the power to change cycling- change it now by voicing your thought and donating money towards Paul Kimmage's defense, (Paul, I want to encourage you to not spend the money that has been donated to your defense fund on defending yourself in Switzerland. In my case, a USA citizen, I could care less if I lost the UCI's bogus lawsuit. Use the money to lobby for real change).
If people really want to clean the sport of cycling up all you have to do is put your money where your mouth is.
Don't buy a USA Cycling license. Give up racing for a year, just long enough to put the UCI and USA cycling out of business. We can then start from scratch and let the real lovers in cycling direct where and how the sport of cycling will go.
Please make a difference.
Greg
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
|
Again, why does it matter if LA is a D-bag or not? Does it matter if he's a good father or husband to any of you? Who gives a crap if he "cheated" or not except the other riders who might not have cheated(seems unlikely)? Who cares if he lies about taking drugs? It shows a lack of moral character? Sure... But again so what?
He's a guy that still rides a bike faster than any of us here. That's it. Entertainment.
You want to look at elitist morally corrupt pricks that really do hurt everyone with their actions, look at politicians anywhere.
So why some seem really upset about LA's drug use simply confounds me.
Why care if anyone cheats?
Why have any laws or rules at all?
Seriously? Are you on crack?
|
|
apinguat
Trad climber
kingfield, me
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
|
Exactly Patrick. The Chiefton is all Lance, Lance, Lance, turns out even his poster boy says it's bigger then Lance. Here is a letter from Lemond.
Open Letter to Pat McQuaid from Greg LeMond
October 24 update: Can anyone help me out? I know this sounds kind of lame but I am not well versed in social marketing. I would like to send a message to everyone that really loves cycling. I do not use twitter and do not have an organized way of getting some of my own "rage" out. I want to tell the world of cycling to please join me in telling Pat McQuaid to f##k off and resign. I have never seen such an abuse of power in cycling's history- resign Pat if you love cycling. Resign even if you hate the sport....
http://www.steephill.tv/2012/usada-lance-armstrong-doping-case/greg-lemond-open-letter.html
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 04:51pm PT
|
I posted earlier (much earlier) on this thread that Kimmage was bullied by Armstrong (something like "you are not worth the chair you are sitting in"), and I still believe it.
There is video of this showing Armstrong saying it and why he is saying it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Armstrong:
When I decided to come back, for what I think is a very noble reason, you said: Folks, the cancer has been in remission for four years, but our cancer has now returned - meaning me.
I don't care how much you hate Armstrong, you don't call a cancer survivor a "cancer".
So I think it goes without saying, no, we're not going to sit down and do an interview. You are not worth the chair that you're sitting on with a statement like that.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
|
Why care if anyone cheats?
Why have any laws or rules at all?
Seriously? Are you on crack?
Not what I said. Not anyone... LA.
Seriously, he rides a bicycle for money and fame. How that qualifies for hero status or any kind of role model escapes me.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 07:36pm PT
|
That's the problem with heavily funded sports and the whole industry really. It's way off base. Tons of sports shows analyzing every aspect of what amount to very trivial matters. So, it's no surprise that hyperbole like the hateful example above is so rampant.
That's what I love about climbing
Three words: Wings of Steel.
|
|
Jaytee
Trad climber
U.K.
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
|
Graniteclimber:
You really think that sanctimonious evasive drivel from Armstrong is impressive?
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
|
Graniteclimber:
You really think that sanctimonious evasive drivel from Armstrong is impressive?
Are you confusing me with anyone else, when did I say that Armstrong said anything impressive?
When someone's a cancer survivor, and you, knowing that, cal them a murder, you can expect they are going to be nasty about it. That's like calling someone's mother a whore.
Lance's response was a very predictable and unimpressive.
What would have been impressive is if he had been able to respond graciously.
|
|
Jaytee
Trad climber
U.K.
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 08:09pm PT
|
Graniteclimber:
Sorry, but I don't understand your reply. Paul Kimmage made no such statement (re: cancer) in the clip you posted. Lance evaded his question and tried to bully him in front of a partisan audience by appealing to utterly unrelated issues. Open your eyes.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
|
Paul Kimmage made no such statement (re: cancer) in the clip you posted.
Jaytee, did your Mom drop you on your head when you were a baby? The video shows LA answering Kimmage's question and puts the"you're not worth the chair you sit on" soundbite in context. If you watched the video, you would see that LA was responding to statement made earlier.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
|
so chief is arragant, but a patriot. LA is the greatest biker on drugs ever, but a cheating as#@&%e. and bike racing is screwed.
|
|
Lloyd Campbell
Social climber
St. Cloud, MN
|
|
|
Oct 26, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
|
Sorry, but I don't understand your reply. Paul Kimmage made no such statement (re: cancer) in the clip you posted. Lance evaded his question and tried to bully him in front of a partisan audience by appealing to utterly unrelated issues. Open your eyes.
Tyler writes in his book about learning this from Lance.
When someone questions you, immediately attack!
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
|
Hormonal Responses to Whole Body Vibration in Men
C. Bosco, et al.
This study, conducted at Rome University and published in the European Journal of Applied Physiology (1999) measure whole body vibration’s effect on the production of key hormones testosterone, human growth hormone (HGH) and cortisol. The study consisted of performing jumping and mechanical testing together with EMG analysis of leg extensor muscles as well as blood data collection before and immediately following 10-minute sessions of whole body vibration treatment. The group experienced substantial increases in the production of testosterone and HGH, while also llustrating equally substantial decreases in production of the inhibiting hormone cortisol.
Cortisol down 32% (catabolic)
HGH up 361% (anabolic)
Testosterone up 7% (anabolic)
Doping isn't required.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
|
Zbrown...Thanks for the article...I'm going to buy one of those vibrating adult toys and sack up...RJ
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!