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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Our liberal community members must be shuttering at Obama having broken so many laws.
Actually, I definitely prefer a targeted killing to bombing down a whole country and killing thousands and spending billions.
but all this stuff gets complicated. It appears Obama is either very smart or very lucky.
We have had the Pakistani Presidents in our pocket for awhile now. That's a good thing cause they are a nuclear armed country with 170 million people. Thing is, the people in Pakistan matter too. Too often we've have presidents in our pocket, like Mubarak of Egypt or the Shah of Iran, and finally the people rise up and oust them and feel we have been their enemy. It seems the majority of the Pakistani people still aren't against the US, but significant minorities are. It's a dangerous game with a nuclear power. Glad we're getting away with it so far.
We never seem to learn this lesson as we even helped Egypt get rid of Mubarak, but now it's pretty questionable if the new Egypt won't become like Iran after their revolution (I dunno but that Muslim Brotherhood statement is telling)
And perhaps we're about to do the something like that in Libya. We've spend 100s of millions there already but who is it that will rule Libya when the dust settles?
This is how we got there with Osama. We got these guys who were pissed off that a imperial power was occupying Muslim land and gave them weapons, and money. Surprise, surprise that when the Soviets were gone, those same guys didn't like our Mid-east policy either, and came after us.
We are our own worst enemies in any case. When you support kings and dictators in other lands, it's going to piss off their people and you can expect some blowback once in awhile. That doesn't mean you have to further bankrupt your country and spend trillions going after a small group of terrorists by invading whole countries.
With that in mind, targeting killing seems like a lesser evil. I'm hoping we find ways to get ever lesser evil in the future
PEace
Karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Killing Bin laden LEGAL: Fattrad wrong again, as usual.
The nation's top law enforcement official Wednesday tried to dismiss questions over whether Sunday's killing of Usama bin Laden was legal, saying in no uncertain terms he is "proud" of the assault and it "was justified as an act of national self defense."
"Let me make something very clear," Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "The operation in which Usama bin Laden was killed was lawful. He was the head of al Qaeda, the organization that had conducted the attacks of September 11th. He admitted his involvement ... [and] he said he would not be taken alive."
Holder said it's lawful to "target an enemy commander in the field," just as U.S. forces did during World War II when it shot down a plane carrying Japanese Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto.
Bin Laden was "by my estimation, and the estimation of the Justice Department, a lawful military target, and the operation was conducted consistent with our law [and] with our values."
Bin Laden made no attempts to surrender and there was "no indication he wanted to do that," Holder said. Even if the Al Qaeda leader had surrendered, there would have been a "good basis" for "those very brave Navy SEALs" to shoot bin Laden "in order to protect themselves and the other people who were in that building," including "substantial numbers of women and children" who were not harmed in the raid.
Both Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee supported Holder's assessment, with Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., saying the Navy SEALS who killed bin Laden "had to believe the moment they encountered bin Laden -- whether he raised his hands or not -- that could be a fake surrender."
"They were well within their rights in shooting him as soon as possible," Graham said.
Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/05/04/holder-bin-laden-mission-was-legal-and-act-national-self-defense#ixzz1LPIiv0LL
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shut up and pull
climber
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THE BIG QUESTION FOR ALL THE LIBS:
If Bush caused 9-11, why did Obama kill OBL? And if OBL did not cause 9-11, why the need to assassinate him?
LAUGHING. SO. HARD. CAN'T. KEEP. TEARS. FROM. FLOWING.
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shut up and pull
climber
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CLASSSSSIC!
WHAT WILL THE MICHAEL MOORE FARENHEIT 9-11 COOLAID DRINKERS DO NOW?
Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "The operation in which Usama bin Laden was killed was lawful. He was the head of al Qaeda, the organization that had conducted the attacks of September 11th. He admitted his involvement ... [and] he said he would not be taken alive."
LAUGHING. SOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD RIGHT NOW.
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shut up and pull
climber
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OBAMA KILLS OSAMA BECAUSE PER OBAMA BIN LADEN CAUSED 911. THE AG HOLDER BACKS OBAMA UP.
OH MY GOD. IS HOLDER, OBAMA, BUSHCO, CHENEY, ETC ALL CONSPIRING TOGETHER TO HIDE THE FACT THAT IT WAS BUSH WHO CAUSED 9-11, AS ALL YOU NUTJOB AMERICA-HATING LIBS HAVE TOLD US FOR YEARS?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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what a dumb fuk
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Obama, still beholden to his backers, but:
Global depression sidestepped. Recovering from worst global recession since WWII is slow. Not sure if anything could be done different that would help.
Huge deficit Bush setup in 2009 (cut taxes, raise spending) increased a bit in 2010, Reducing it is slow. I'd like to see proposals from either side that actually BALANCE the budget at some point.
Iraq war, which we should have never started is tapering off.
The justified Afghan war ramped up after being ignored for years, but progress is slow. Not sure if anything could be done different that would help.
Bombing Libyan aholes, without risking American lives.
Bin Laden the leader of the group that attacked us, dead given the brave choice of the commander in chief and kick ass special ops.
This independent centrist's rating of Obama just went from B- to B+.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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If Bush caused 9-11
Huh? Who said that Bush caused 9/11?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Regarding the legality of us going in a sovereign nation to get Bin Laden and that being legal.
For those that say yes, what would you say if Cuba or Panama sent a hit squad into the US and killed Luis Posada, the terrorist who downed a Cuban Airliner among other things, and whom the US had been harboring?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
Ok?
Now, it could well be that we cleared this raid with the Pakistanis and they just politically don't want to admit it. I already heard one Pak official say they were working with us on it and yet others deny it. We don't get the truth but what politics demand be said.
Peace
Karl
Does this mean we can get out of Afghanistan? It's been how many years there and we're losing just as many guys? Did it work out for the Soviets? Some places are backward and you just can't make it right there. They don't want foreigners on their soil (except for the business guys and politicians that need us)
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shut up and pull
climber
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LIBERALS = BUSH CAUSED 911. REMEMBER FARENHEIT 9-11?
OBAMA = OBL CAUSED 911 AND MUST BE KILLED.
ERIC HOLDER = "The operation in which Usama bin Laden was killed was lawful. He was the head of al Qaeda, the organization that had conducted the attacks of September 11th. He admitted his involvement ... [and] he said he would not be taken alive."
LIBERALS = EGG ALLLLL OVER THEIR FACE.
WHEN WILL LIBS APOLOGIZE FOR SLANDERING BUSH FOR SO MANY YEARS?
OH -- AND PELOSI THANKS BUSH TODAY FOR HIS EFFORTS.
LAUGHING. SO. HARD. MUST. SIT. DOWN.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2011 - 02:22pm PT
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I already heard one Pak official say they were working with us on it and yet others deny it. We don't get the truth but what politics demand be said.
It appears that the lines of communication are very fractured in the Pakistani government. What one official knows may be worlds away from the knowledge of another official.
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shut up and pull
climber
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SLOW JOE BLOWS IT AGAIN.
Since President Barack Obama announced that “a small team of Americans” had killed Osama bin Laden, US government officials have carefully stuck to the line that they will not talk about which units were involved.
Obama did not say it was the SEALs. In numerous television appearances, Obama’s counter-terrorism chief John Brennan didn’t and his deputy national security adviser Denis McDonough didn’t. Despite the numerous news reports that named the SEALs, none of the anonymous briefers from the CIA and Pentagon would confirm it.
Here’s a typical response to a question about the SEALs from a senior defence official in a Pentagon briefing on Monday:
QUESTION: Can I ask you, can you confirm that it was a (Navy) SEAL team? And was this a specially designated team that had been practising or reviewing intelligence for a while and they were the unit of choice?
SENIOR DEFENCE OFFICIAL: Not going to comment on units or numbers.
But here’s what the legendarily verbose and loose-lipped Vice President Joe Biden said at a dinner at Washington’s Ritz Carlton Hotel last night to mark the 50th anniversary of the Atlantic Council:
Let me briefly acknowledge tonight’s distinguished honorees. Admiral James Stavridis is a, is the real deal. He can tell you more about and understands the incredible, the phenomenal, the just almost unbelievable capacity of his Navy SEALs and what they did last Sunday.
And:
Folks, I’d be remiss also if I didn’t say an extra word about the incredible events, extraordinary events of this past Sunday. As Vice President of the United States, as an American, I was in absolute awe of the capacity and dedication of the entire team, both the intelligence community, the CIA, the SEALs. It just was extraordinary.
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shut up and pull
climber
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LIBERALS = WE MUST SHOW THE ENTIRE WORLD THE ABU GHRAIB PHOTOS THAT EMBARRASS AMERICA.
OBAMA = WE CANNOT SEE OBL'S PHOTO BECAUSE ........?
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
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LIBERALS = BUSH CAUSED 911. REMEMBER FARENHEIT 9-11?
You're joking I hope. That sort of asinine conjuncture doesn't even warrant a response.
Turn off your caps, I don't like yelling.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2011 - 02:32pm PT
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Maybe the world cop can issue President Obama a citation? Wait, we're supposed to be world cop... what do you do when the world cop doesn't follow its own rules?
Can The Hague issue jaywalking tickets?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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if Bush caused 9-11
Bush couldn't call 9-11. He couldn't find the 11 key on the phone.
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dirtbag
climber
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what a dumb fuk
The best response to that angry troll.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dingus...could you actually provide a link/law to backup you saying the killing of Osama was illegal?
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