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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jul 14, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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So... Let me get this right...
You are proposing that the Twin Towers were not brought down as a result of being struck by two jumbo jets, but instead by preplanned, preplaced explosives in a part of the buildings that were prepaired for demo, and that just so happened to be placed in the exact places that the planes hit, AND that all of the explosives, wiring, and det chord survived the impacts of the planes, as well as the fires to finaly explode "as planned" well after the impact of the planes?
Is that what you believe?
As far as your "speed" thing goes... Do you believe that if you fell from 100 feet while climbing and ripped every piece you had out of the rock, that it would significantly slow your speed?
We've been over this too, yet you have ignored that as well...
If your piece would hold 3 times body weight, yet you fell on it from 10 feet above it, it would rip immediately, and you would accelerate to the next piece, which would also rip.
Buildings are over-engineered, but not normaly above 2.5 times.
Lastly...you don't even have crunched-up file cabinets or a telephone or two intact. More than that ACTUALLY, as there was the sound of many of the fireman's personal location devices (PASS devices) that go off after they have been motionless for a certain amount of time. So these devices survived, intact, and still functioned.
So... Now what? Are you going to concede that you are wrong there too? I doubt it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
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Yep, that's what they believe.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 14, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
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the current state of controlled demolition art employs radio signals, not det cord. easy to set, easy to set off. the point is that they weren't placed where the planes hit, they were placed all over.
climbing is a good allegory. if you're zippering a bunch of pro, it can slow you down way less than freefall speed, sometimes enough so you can hit the ground without getting hurt.
you're not talking about casually placed pro here but well-engineering buildings. the simple answer is that when a little part of a well-engineered building has something that goes wrong with it, the rest of the building simply holds it up. only a house of cards is engineered so that one little failure will bring the whole structure down.
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jul 14, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
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Wow Tony... You really have no idea what you are talking about. But what's worse, is that you think you are an expert. And worse still, even when shown where you are wroing, you still cling to it is fact.
Seriously, brutha... How is trying to debate this with you any different than debating evolution or Jesus with a Fundie?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 14, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
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And just how would they have placed a couple of thousand charges
in the two towers without being noticed? Remember, the cleaning
crews are in there at night. And wouldn't most of the structural
joints that would have needed to be targeted been just a teensy bit
difficult to access?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2010 - 04:58pm PT
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And just how would they have placed a couple of thousand charges
in the two towers without being noticed? Remember, the cleaning
crews are in there ar night.
Duh. The Illuminati has a cloaking device. They are all around us, we just can't see them. Piece of cake.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 14, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
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all i can say is that you guys are new to all this.
there has been testimony about strange happenings in the twin towers in the time prior to the attacks, including a complete shutting down of the north tower, no one allowed in, for an entire weekend. for an entire year previous, extensive "elevator refurbishment" was taking place. and on the board of directors of the security company in charge of the wtc: president bush's brother and first cousin.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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Tony, has anyone told you you're f*#king batshit crazy? Completely.
I hope you don't lose sleep over this contrived paranoid gobblygoop.
Lose sleep over this instead...
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jul 14, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
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there has been testimony about strange happenings...
There has also been lots of 'testimony' in the God thread about 'strange happenings' (E.g., severed tongues miraculously healed, out of body experiences, etc)... Or 'testimony' regarding a giant alien space ship on the far side of the moon has been cited in another thread here.
So, all of that 'testimony' means that Jesus IS God, and that the Earth WAS populated by aliens long ago?
Do you believe all of that too? Or do you only believe what fits nicely inside of you tin-foil hat?
Aagin... What's the difference between trying to discuss THIS with you, and trying to discuss Jesus or evolution with a Fundie?
I'm out dude... Enjoy your delusion.
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jul 14, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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The buildings were unique in some ways, built as slender columns of prestressed concrete. Like strings of concrete spaghetti all bound together, and with cables running from each floor to the foundation, sort of like a long bridge stuck in the ground.
Thousands of cables, each holding portions of the load, each to certain floors, all held in tension so it can be transferred to the foundation.
You are mixing apples with oranges here...
This is not how post-tension strands work in concrete... They are placed in concrete, and after it cures, they are tensioned... The tension is lateral for floors of buildings. They are tensioned at the edges of the slab. This is dont to add strength to the concrete, since it has great compression strength, but little shear or tension strength. The are NOT used to transfer any load to the foundation.
Think of it this way...
Take 100 decks of cards, placed side by side... They will will not be abkle to support a shear or tension load, but they can be compressed. Now, if you run a wire through them, and put significant tension on the wire with it connected to the outside cards, it will not be able to support a shear or tension load.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
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Sheeple!
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jul 14, 2010 - 05:49pm PT
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When it comes to this (9/11) I can sit here and say that you and others that deny any shady, behind the scenes, happenings... Where have I denied this? I do not deny that there are questions unanswered, and that there may even be some 'shady, behind the scenes, happenings'. I would mostly limit these to what who knew and when, as in who dropped the ball in the intelligence agencies.
I do deny the idea that the buildings were brought down on purpose, by a controlled demolition, requiring a HUGE conspiracy and the murder of thousands of civilians.
It is apparent to me that you understand nothing about buildings or Physics... Really? That's 'apparent', huh? It's apparent (you used that word), that what is "apparent" to you is pretty far off base.
I've inspected many buildings in my career as an Inspector, even up to x-raying concrete floors of high rises prior to coring so they don't hit a post tension strand, conduit, or to locate rebar. I now inspect nuclear power plants, in fact, I work full-time at one as an INSPECTOR. And guess what I inspect? Lots of structural steel, concrete, and fire proofing, as well as welds and other componants.
Oh, and one of my hobies is physics... Both applied and theoretical, namely, high energy physics, and cosmology.
So, now what?
OK... Now that you know a little about me... What is your background in building construction and physics, Jolly?
Edit: And the 'religious allagories' are accurate here, as gaps in our knowledge regarding 9/11 no more prove a conspiracy than do gaps in our knowledge prove the existance of God. Problem is, some people cite these gaps as the very "proofs".
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 14, 2010 - 05:54pm PT
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Now, rrrAdam, aren't you also going to rain on their parade to
the extent that it is highly unlikely that even the floors of the
WTC are even pre or post-stressd? I'm gonna go out on a limb and
hazard a guess that they are just plain old lightweight pans like
most high rises. Can you toss me a rope on this one? I'll use it
to either pull myself back in or proceed with the public lynching.
Oh, and as I predicted on this thread's first page, it has some
serious legs!
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jul 14, 2010 - 06:03pm PT
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Never looked into it... They likely used the best technology of the time, and even way over engineered it. The floors of the Twin Towers were likely post-tensioned concrete, as generally, pre-stressed slabs are fabricated off site, then lifted into place.
Note that even in the 'pans' that the concrete is poured into for most buidings, they do put tension strans in them, along with rebar prior to the pour, then tension them after it cures... Especially if it is over 4" thick.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 14, 2010 - 06:14pm PT
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OK, I've no experience in high rises (but i've done pre-stressed) but I think we can agree that
the floors were a deck of cards although I suspect they did add some torsional rigidity.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Jul 14, 2010 - 06:29pm PT
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I will simply follow Occam's Razor (as is sooo often brought up) and present the simplest explanation that CAN be agreed upon.
Nineteen partying Arabs with box-cutter knives get orders from a rich Saudi living in a cave, and 100k to learn to fly jumbo jets into chosen landmark targets.
They pick September 11th, 2001 (my 37th birthday) which happens to coincide EXACTLY with military exercises scheduled for that day--this includes "stand-down" orders and being absent from the NYC/DC air space.
No jets intercept ANY aircraft of the 4 that day, which were obviously deviating from their scheduled path. 3 of the 4 planes hit their presumed targets, destroying over 250 floors of high-rise buildings AND one side of the NEWLY RE-INFORCED Pentagon.
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Many other breaches of protocol, mostly governmental were simply NOT followed--not to mention the GOLD bullion reserves lost in the Tower depository, or all of the CIA, FBI, and financial institution records destroyed in Building 7.
Sarcasm here--no holes above in the "Occam" version of the simple story, hahahaha
Too many coincidences happening on a day that some Muslim Arabs picked out for THEIR cause.
I have no answers, only other than "Occam's Razor" is as is any other social theory, FLAWED at times, as it doesn't not account for high-end human deviations.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jul 14, 2010 - 06:40pm PT
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Too many coincidences happening on a day that some Muslim Arabs picked out for THEIR cause.
Yeeeeaaah . . .
Like maybe they did it because it was your 37th birthday on 9/11 2001.
9+11=20. 3+7=10 which is 01 in reverse. 20 and 01 is 2001. Coincidence, I don't think so . . .
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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It's all in the Bible codes, dude. And "The Simpsons" and "Terminator 2."
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 14, 2010 - 06:45pm PT
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It just occurred to me that if the towers were part of a
nefarious scheme why did 'they' wait to blow them up until
most of the people had exited them? That seems a rather
shoddy job, doesn't it? 'They' only wanted to kill 3000
rather than 30,000?
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Jul 14, 2010 - 06:47pm PT
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I was walking into the Humbug Spires that morning for a trip up "The Wedge" and "The Edge", so I'm in the clear... No money trail on this end, either.
REALLY simple explanation: 19 men overcame staggering odds to weaken the USA.
I'm still in disbelief of all of the happenings.
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