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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 10, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
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No I didn't. It's a waste of time. Sorry.
I usually don't read NWO's kooky sources either or what several other people post either. I'm more interested in what Chiloe, Ed and a few others who actually know their sh#t and don't have an axe to grind or aren't fruit loopy (like the Birchers) have to say.
The web is full of such crappy loopy ideas. Don't have time or interest in it.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jun 10, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
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Ron:
so then you DIDNT read it or give any review,
This is hilarious. Ron parrots a John Birch Society attack on a scientific paper he hasn't read, then complains that people haven't read the JBS attack.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jun 10, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
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The Cook et al. paper has been the focus of very determined political attacks, like Marcott et al. just a few months before, and many others before that. But the Cook confirmation that a consensus on the reality of ACC exists among active scientists has been replicated across many different studies now, mainly because it's true.
And active scientists know that, because they have their own data, read the journals, attend the meetings and generally understand how science works.
In the May 24 issue of Science, which I just got 'round to reading:
Annually Resolved Ice Core Records of Tropical Climate Variability over the Past ~1800 Years
Thompson et al.
Ice cores from low latitudes can provide a wealth of unique information about past climate in the tropics, but they are difficult to recover and few exist. Here, we report annually resolved ice core records from the Quelccaya ice cap (5670 meters above sea level) in Peru that extend back ~1800 years and provide a high-resolution record of climate variability there.
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Nearly annual field observations confirm that since 1978 the QIC has been retreating along its margins (14). Radiocarbon-dated wetland plants exposed by the retreating ice provide temporal constraints on both its advance and retreat. Twenty wetland plants exposed by the retreating margin of the QIC were collected between 2004 and 2007 next to a meltwater lake (site A in Fig. 6) that started forming in 1985 on the west side of the ice cap. Radiocarbon dates for the plants [4676 ± 41 years before the present (yr B.P.)] indicate that the ice cap is smaller than it has been in almost five millennia (14, 35). In 2011 as the ice cap continued to retreat, fresh plant remains were uncovered on the eastern side of the expanding North Lake (site B in Fig. 6), while most of the plants exposed in 2002 had already decayed because of their lack of woody tissue. Radiocarbon dates on these newly exposed plants, still in growth position, average 6298 ± 35 yr B.P. (table S3), ~1600 years older than the plants collected on the west side of the lake, indicating that Quelccaya is now smaller than it was 6000 years ago. Moreover, the plant ages confirm that the advance of the QIC ~6000 years ago was much slower, ~300 m over ~1600 years, than its current rate of retreat, ~300 m in 25 years. δ18O is not correlated with net accumulation on decadal and longer time scales (Fig. 2 and figs. S3 and S4) but is highly correlated with SSTs in the eastern equatorial Pacific (Fig. 3, A and B). For the past century, Quelccaya’s net accumulation has been above average, while δ18O has been enriched (Fig. 2), suggesting that the current retreat is driven in part by its warming environment. The rapidity of Quelccaya’s retreat may reflect snow-ice feedbacks that are considered instrumental (36) for rapidly increasing temperature trends near the 0°C isotherm during the 20th century. The accelerating retreat of Quelccaya and other tropical ice fields (8) is consistent with model predictions for vertical amplification of temperature in the tropics (37) and has serious implications for those living in these areas.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Jun 10, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
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The JBS practices its own, specialized form of elitism, that's for sure!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 10, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
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The Birch Society's Blue Book is scary as hell. Not for what it predicts, but because not only was someone paranoid enough to conceive it, but others actually believe it!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 10, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
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And here's The Chief back again with his wet finger. Fresh from a lake, he can claim (with that wet finger) that there is no drought in California.
Listen to The Chief, he smart.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jun 10, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
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Yeah...There's lots of water down in owens valley thanks to DWP and it's full time staff of lawyers...Chief can take 2 showers a week while the residents of Keeler wear respirators to keep the PM 10 out of their lungs...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jun 10, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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Now you are not open minded if you do not read what The John Burch Society says,you guys are FRUITCAKES.
Read what NASA SAYS.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 10, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
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Thus, this "Drought" you speak of, is actual the norm.
 The Chief
Proof positive, The Chief is loco.
But to throw you a bone, The Chief, the Beatles have this wisdom for you:
There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
So, essentially, it's all within the natural course of the Universe. Okay?
But, if some folks want to try to stop the terrible machine that we ourselves have created, Godspeed!
Now, for your own sake, go stick your finger back in the lake.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jun 10, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
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Raise your hand if you know what a stem-and-leaf display is. Or would like to know. The version below shows a distribution of 19 data points ranging from 4.1 to 4.9. Stems are 1's and leaves are 0.1's. The t, f, s notation comes from John Tukey's clever discovery that 2 and 3 both start with "t", 4 and 5 both start with "f", and you can guess about the "s".
Stem-and-leaf plot for sio_1206
sio_1206 rounded to nearest multiple of .1
plot in units of .1
4* | 1
4t | 23333
4f | 4444
4s | 66777
4. | 8999
These happen to be real data, new to me as of just now. 19 wrong (but in some cases, expert) predictions about the extent of Arctic Ocean sea ice last September. The actual value was not in that 4.1 to 4.9 (million km^2) range, but rather 3.6 -- much lower than predicted by most experts (or laypeople). This year, I'm part of a project just starting up to look at how to make better predictions. There will of course be a reality test.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jun 10, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
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Chief...Much obliged...your water comes from Paiute Mt...? does your climate information come from Bull Sh#t Mt...?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 10, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
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Hey, all you hothead guys. You are not dealing with us "climate realists in the approved and proper manner. For your convenience i provide the direct link below to take your refresher course.
http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
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Hey Chief
US Open this week, who do you like?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jun 10, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
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How can you find a map that stops at 1960?
Comedy,just Comedy.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 10, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
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Getting better, only 23 years old. How about this year?
I'll let you go June to June, to cover the contiguous wet period, like a lot of meteorologists do.
If the data aint out, what the hell are you trying to prove? That you are not that bright?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 10, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
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Where in the hell do you think i got it Wilbeer? The Chiefs map is what you would call climate history, it is something you should study sometime-memory, whether in mind or print, is relevant when you are pointing to "climate change symptoms".
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