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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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You cannot know Mind without knowing Un-Mind
Is that the same as no-thing or open awareness? And I thought quantum theory was complicated . . .
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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'Our Own Way'
Everyone to no surprise
On 'What is Mind'
And so in kind
'Religion vs Science'
Repeats their stated points
In time with little change
For year on end
There's nothing strange
About the show
Or parts we play
We dare not budge
Or show our cards
But waffle and equivocate
To hedge and then prevaricate
The madness we express
So stultifying to the glass
The broken mirror swept away
To grind the crystal into dust
Like beige white grey
The summer sands
Along our summers highway
We have to have it our own way
Returning to the same crossroads
We championed in our youth
Holding fast to places fixed
Foot stuck in the mix.
-bushman
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WindRiverWildman
Trad climber
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A geology professor of mine once said:
"We are the Earth looking at itself," but I think it should be generalized to "We are the Universe looking at itself."
Perhaps the mind and consciousness are intrinsic properties of the universe and the universe is trying to understand itself...
We are trying to understand how our physical body can lead to a mind and consciousness.
But our physical body limits the potential of our consciousness so we will never be able to fully understand our mind and consciousness - until our consciousness is freed from its physical limitations.
I recently read a book written by a Neurosurgeon - "Proof of Heaven - A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife," who experienced a NDE. One of the interesting things he says is that when his consciousness was freed from his body, he was shown and came to understand things like parallel universes and multiple dimensions.
But as his consciousness returned to his body, his understanding dissipated. He could remember understanding these things but couldn't bring them back - and believes that was because of the limitations caused by our physical body.
The book is an interesting read - he was a professor of neurosurgeon at Harvard Medical school. He states "Consciousness is the Most Profound Mystery of the Universe."
As a neurosurgeon, he struggled with the question of how the physical body gives rise to consciousness - and how to rationalize the perspectives of science and spirituality.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Glad to see no progress has been made.
When someone shows an interest in getting nothing done, I'm the man for the job.
Not everyone shares my inclination.
I heard Geoffrey Hinton interviewed yesterday. I remember him from the early days of excitement over the potential for artificial neural networks. Hinton's perspective was that the unsupervised type of machine learning would be the most broadly applicable. Also, Hinton was mindful that the human brain does not work like conventional computers.
Conventional computing gave us machines that could beat humans at chess and Jeopardy. Geoffrey Hinton kept working on his very different kind of machine. According to him, the real problem was that machines had to get fast enough and big enough before his approach could have advantages over programs written for each task.
The breakthrough for Geoffrey Hinton was not supercomputers. It was graphics engines built for video gaming. According to Hinton, Google Translate got significantly better a few years ago thanks to him.
I don't suppose Moosedrool would have noticed, but I was impressed about a year ago in what seemed like an improvement in the back-and-forth with my imaginary Polish girlfriend.
In the interview Hinton also spoke about what machine thoughts are in his devices and about the future applications of his system. On the record, at least, he does not see a human-level artificial intelligence happening in the foreseeable future.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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GENIUS
We were all geniuses once when we were little children. Without books, special teachers, or anything we learned a language like a dry sponge soaks up water. And to perfection, prefect pronunciation everything. And we were much much better than just one language, we were capable of learning 4 or more at once and keeping them all straight and separate. But as we aged that ability faded away and by the time we were 12 we were severe mental retards in the field of language (and remain so). What was going on?
I think that part of the answer is that the young child's soul was open and awake, enabling it to directly see the meaning of what was being said as the feelings from the speaker's soul just before the words were formed. As the mind developed over the years, an ever increasing stream of rational thought drowned out the soul. I posit that a child would not be able to learn language from a robot, no matter how good, because it lacks a soul.
Perhaps by stopping the mind through meditation this language genius may be reawakened. I found that when I stopped talking to myself in my mind while working math problems I did several times better. I think all genius of all types resides in the soul. The mind is only capable of more mundane things.
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WBraun
climber
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Rare intelligent person posting ^^^^^
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WBraun
climber
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What's up, Duck?
It's raining!!!!
Water is falling from sky right now.
Or is mind raining .....?
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WindRiverWildman
Trad climber
N. Colorado
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cliff:
I think that part of the answer is that the young child's soul was open and awake, enabling it to directly see the meaning of what was being said as the feelings from the speaker's soul just before the words were formed.
There is a physiological reason also. Apparently the brain of children is wired in a way that facilitates learning languages - which gets rewired as the child ages - so the best time to learn a language is as a child.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Some would say we can't create AI because that would make us like God. They would say we can never be like God because we haven't passed all of God's tests, that we are not worthy.
Others would say it's sacrilege to play God, and that it's not possible to create a sentient artificial being.
Some would say that we create sentient beings biologically every time we procreate. Others would say that that's not us creating intelligent life, but God creating intelligent life through us.
Some of say that we will create AI and that it will happen within the next 25 years. Others would say that if we create AI and we are capable of God's handiwork then that might prove that there is no God.
Some would say that to play God or to try and disprove the existence of God would be blaspheme and that we will be judged harshly for it.
I think that that God has nothing to do with it.
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WBraun
climber
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You "think" means you have no clue and are just guessing.
Guessing is useless for understanding something you have no clue.
The living entity is part parcel of God.
The living entity has all the qualities of God but not the quantity.
Thus the living entity eternally remains subordinate to God.
The living entities claim there is no God is using it's limited independent free will to make such a claim.
But it's independence is eternally limited and subordinate.
Otherwise the living entity would have complete control and ownership of its body.
No conditioned soul has such attributes.
Their material bodies are taken away by force after their allotted breaths (prana) and seen by such conditioned living entities as "Death".
Thus the foolish gross materialist can keep barking at the empty space in their tiny brains to make
their stupid claims there is no God to no avail .......
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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There is no god.
Unless, by "god" you mean whatever you want it to mean. But that's 'thinking' eh duck?
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WBraun
climber
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My posts stand of themselves.
Whether someone "thinks" them or not is unimportant.
Whether someone agrees or not is unimportant.
Randisi mind "thinks" he's important .....
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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I read everything. Werner is a bodhisattva from Cold Mountain. Dismiss him at your peril.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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If anyone here would like a GREAT intro to either Joe Rogan (btw, just interviewed Sam Harris a third time) or Neil deGrasse Tyson, then I'd recommend this 2011 JRE podcast...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qoa2jU1NVI
Time well spent. A host of exciting, cool topics, one after another.
I really had no idea just how widely and well versed Joe Rogan is (former host of Fear Factor and host of MMA comps) in science goings-on all across the board.
PS
Speaking of mind, machine consciousness and AGI (artificial general intelligence), there is another GREAT exchange on the state of the art between Harris and Rogan on his #641 podcast. Starts last hour or so.
Our own consciousness is so archaic in comparison if you're talking about something that can exponentially increase in one week... and on and on from there. Why would you want to take your consciousness [and upload it to the internet]? It's like a chicken asking: Can I stay a chicken? Where are my feathers going to go in this new world? If you could take an ant and turn it into Einstein would it really want to go back to being an ant? "I prefer digging in the dirt, dropping my eggs and cutting leaves." Ultimately this is inescapable it seems like. Our thirst for ingenuity and innovation is never going to slow down. And our ability to do that is never going to slow down either... unless a super-volcano hits.
"We're building a wrecking ball. And we're going to swing it out away from the planet and watch it hurdle back." -Sam Harris on AGI
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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It's just plain screwy how the two threads get mixed up.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Is nothing sacred?
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 10, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
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If you could take an ant and turn it into Einstein would it really want to go back to being an ant?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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WBraun
climber
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May 10, 2015 - 09:44pm PT
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The ant is still there.
Your theory failed .....
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 13, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
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Question: Are Planck spheres more closely associated with religion than with mind?
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