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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
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Et tu? Why not just say you're not going to bother to vote? A protest vote? For what? 8 years of Hillary and then we bank on the as#@&%es in the RNC again???
First off, being in CA, voting for Trump is a wasted vote. Face the facts, no matter what either of the candidates do Hillary takes this state. Thinking otherwise is dreaming.
Secondly, Trump and his people mishandle one easy play after another. Take the hubub about Melania's speech. I think she got sandbagged. She said she wrote the speech with as little help as possible. So someone in the organization (either a bonehead or a saboteur) comes to her and says "Great speech, but how about you add this in?" That's a little bit of help.
The problem is the Trump campaign's response. They should have come out right away and said "Yes, those are the First Lady's words and we apologize. Melania had nothing to gain and everything to lose by using these words, there are so many elegant ways to make those points. We are certain that those are not her words. We will find out how they got to her and we will make it public." Hey it worked for Biden and Obama. They came clean and the issue was over with almost immediately.
Instead they obfuscate and come up with bizarre and uncoordinated responses. Not promising for a Trump administration. And yes with his talk about tariffs, which will hurt the American middle class, I think he can do great harm. The last thing we need right now is another Herbert Hoover, also a successful businessman with no experience in government.
So thirdly, in this sh#t-show I have to vote my conscience.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
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Don't say Johnson.....f*#k, can we talk about people with a chance of winning?
He certainly won't have a chance to win if people that want a better country are too scared to not vote for either Hillary or Drumph.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
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First off, being in CA, voting for Trump is a wasted vote. Face the facts, no matter what either of the candidates do Hillary takes this state. Thinking otherwise is dreaming.
Ya never know. I'm a boy with a dream of a red California again. (It was, not so long ago)
Secondly, Trump and his people mishandle one easy play after another. Take the hubub about Melania's speech. I think she got sandbagged. She said she wrote the speech with as little help as possible. So someone in the organization (either a bonehead or a saboteur) comes to her and says "Great speech, but how about you add this in?" That's a little bit of help.
The problem is the Trump campaign's response. They should have come out right away and said "Yes, those are the First Lady's words and we apologize. Melania had nothing to gain and everything to lose by using these words, there are so many elegant ways to make those points. We are certain that those are not her words. We will find out how they got to her and we will make it public." Hey it worked for Biden and Obama. They came clean and the issue was over with almost immediately.
Hillary is better?
Instead they obfuscate and come up with bizarre and uncoordinated responses. Not promising for a Trump administration. And yes with his talk about tariffs, which will hurt the American middle class, I think he can do great harm. The last thing we need right now is another Herbert Hoover, also a successful businessman with no experience in government.
Hillary will be better?
So thirdly, in this sh#t-show I have to vote my conscience.
I guess so. I just cannot sit on the sideline and watch Hillary get elected. I'll openly advocate for Trump, someone who can beat her. "His talk about tariffs" I think is all much about nothing. He mentioned it once as a last resort.
He has some pretty smart guys like Steve Forbes and others advising him as well on trade policy. He talked about this once I saw. He said the same thing.
This seems to be a real thorn for some people too. I don't get it. I think it's an excuse.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
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"I did the climb with as little help as possible" leaves a lot of wiggle room, eh?
It had to be malicious. We are agreed.
Trump himself? Methinks I've been trolled...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
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There is zero chance she wrote her own speech. Zero.
do you think they'de still be talkin today about somethin she wrote yesterday?
you must not be paying close enough attention, SCANDAL thats what drives the eyes. more than a tight dress.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
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Word is a couple of bush speech writers were originally going to help trumps wife. They ended up using an inside PR type person ironically named MacGyver.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
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Ted Nuisance wearing an army fartigue....Get real...Nuisance is America's 2nd biggest poser behind Trump , your best buddy and the guy you'd love to have a beer with who would make your vato neighbors you pick up the tab... Build a wall and make the Slovenians pay for it...
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
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bluering and everyone, let's rise above party-line squabbling and focus on issues.
Can you summarize the specific issues that are important to you, and how those issues shape your choices in this election?
Here are mine, ranked roughly in order:
 transparency in campaign finance (the details of ensuring ads remain truthful are too slippery to enforce)
Break up "too big to fail" banks and improve consumer protections and disclosures regarding investment decisions. When institutions fail from small price fluctuations when they are too leveraged, company managers will take note and act accordingly, or at least have their skin in the game when they accept unreasonable risks.
active policy to redistribute wealth from corporations and very wealthy folks, because concentrated ownership of automation technology is creating unemployment and lower class suffering while profits for rich people soar. This is not "fair" in the classical sense of getting to keep everything you earn, but we need a longer range plan that addresses reality, and wealth redistribution is a heck of a lot better than pitchforks and storming the Bastille round 2. Think of it like a Yates Screamer for our economy. It's a tax for getting to earn a profit in a stable society.
leverage trade agreements to enforce working conditions and environmental laws that level the playing field with domestic requirements. When it comes to compromise here- Win/Win or no deal.
Assume global warming is real and take major steps to mitigate it. I'd sure rather be wrong in this direction than doing nothing about it and being wrong on that side.
reduce US involvement in international conflicts. Do not use our national assets and blood of our children to increase profits for private companies
Dramatically increase federal research funding for basic sciences (NIH, NSF, DOE grants)
Free preschool for kids 24+ months, funded by federal income tax, creating jobs for preschool educators and enabling parents to work in whatever their chosen field or even for minimum wage jobs. Today too many people choose to be unemployed because their earning potential and contribution to the economy is less than what it costs them to have a safe and trusted resource watch their kids
National standardized tests for each K-12 grade level that clarify baseline requirements and measure on an even playing field the objective performance of our students. Regional electives/priorities are fine but a national common core should exist.
Free national university system for students that meet entrance requirements (i.e. score on a national standardized test)
Do not give away our national assets in the form of mining/mineral rights, petroleum rights, grazing rights, etc. to companies that take advantage of public lands. It is not "freedom" to let companies rape these resources
path to decriminalizing illegal immigration. Keeping it criminal will not stop the problem- it will just stop us from taxing their income. We need to realistically assess the ways in which our economy depends on illegal immigrant labor for low costs. Our trade deal policy needs to ensure the same worker rights (including minimum livable wages) in our trading partner companies, in which case they will not be as motivated to try to get to America
Preserve secular laws like women's right to choose their own life rather than bringing an unwanted child into the world.
That's enough for now.
Neither Democrats nor Republicans are in line with how I would like our country to function, but Democrats are closer in terms of policy platforms. Green Party is the best fit for me, but I have never been impressed with the candidates they field at the national level.
Our national focus on name-calling and personal insults in elections, and our appetite to accept politics divorced from fact and truth, is really embarrassing. It shows a sickness endemic in our society that cannot be compatible with leading the world in anything positive.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
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He certainly won't have a chance to win if people that want a better country are too scared to not vote for either Hillary or Drumph.
Dude has to actually campaign and stuff. Get people's attention. Either run, or don't!!!
Dude has no chance, and it ain't because of anything I ever did or voted for, or didn't vote for. He's a loser! They need a better candidate, and keep in mind it has to sell well in all 50 States. Or most of them.
3rd party has a ways to go. In the mean time....
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
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"His talk about tariffs" I think is all much about nothing. He mentioned it once as a last resort.
I respect your opinions but this is just not the case. He went on about tarrifs against China, getting in a trade war with Mexico, and all sorts of policies which will drive up prices on basic goods. He did this in every primary debate. China! China! Mexico!
The Federal Gov. punishing companies for moving their manufacturing out of the US? Where does the gov. get that power in the Constitution. That's a simple minded solution to a complex problem, and a solution which does no one any good.
Since true conservatism is dead in the Republican party, our last chance may be the Libertarian party. And they actually stand for personal liberty, as in You Own Yourself. And they don't get their nose all messed up by putting social issues ahead of policy.
I'm thinking that in this election the down ticket voting is the most important. If the Democrats take Congress and the White House they'll also have the Supreme Court. I would hope even the most died in the wool liberal might see the problem with that. Yeah I know, the thought will give them wet dreams.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
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NUt AGian:
Manufacturing Jobs/Economy
Illegal Immigration resolution/Wall
Audit FED, take a serious look at debt. This will hurt. Interest rates will have to rise.
National Defense overhaul
Serious look into getting rid of some Federal Agencies. Some regulations will be revoked. Dept of Education should be axed. IRS? Yeah, reduced.
Simplified taxes. Lower overall rates.
Lower corporate taxes.
EDIT; The Federal Gov. punishing companies for moving their manufacturing out of the US? Where does the gov. get that power in the Constitution. That's a simple minded solution to a complex problem, and a solution which does no one any good.
He can't do that. He says stuff and has to be explained, 'nah, can't do that'. And he rethinks it.
You are still basing your conclusion on something he can't do, and hasn't done. And I think has since walked way back.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
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How does any of this effect Reilly's barren streetscape... Huh...?
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
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If the Democrats take Congress and the White House they'll also have the Supreme Court. I would hope even the most died in the wool liberal might see the problem with that. Yeah I know, the thought will give them wet dreams.
Same can be said of the repubs, Kris, but you know that.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:48pm PT
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Yeah...The dominance , submission routine is totally old and worn out...
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:48pm PT
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Automation technology is the wave of the future. While it obviously replaces humans on production lines, and soon, in the service industry, there is no denying the efficiency, and lower costs.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
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JE wrote: "What we have is the first real post-modern Presidential election."
only if one is [too] simply equating post-modernity solely with a negation of any "objective" truth... while this is what the "holders" of "objective" truth would like to simplify it to, i'd argue that postmodernity is/was colored by a breakdown of trust in a singular truth and by an opposing increased interest in multiple truths... the point being that there are/were still, in general, perceived to be truths...
trump [and hillary as well] has moved far far beyond that and so while i agree that he in general does not concern himself with any level of objective [or subjective for that matter] truth, by the above perspective that does not mean he is characteristic of a post-modern present...
instead, i'd argue this election is representative of the sputtering of an attempt at a hypermodernity...
a hypermodern present where all boats continue to float upward - but only if they are yachts... a hypermodern present where the form [the derivative and the stock exchange to stick with an economic theme] has attempted to completely free itself from any substance [any type of an actual physical product and working class wages to name two economic complementaries]...
a hypermodernity embodied by one potential leader whose presented form* is completely detached from their objective historical function**
* [a call to prosecute an individual who compromised state secretes with the intention of informing the public, a call to "protect" the working and middle classes, a call for progressive identity based equality, the running for a party more typically associated with dove trending foreign policies and etc.]
** [an individual who risked state secrets in order to hide from freedom of information requirements, an individual who is part of a public "servant" class that has made millions including the giving of quarter million dollar sub quarter day speech/meetandgreet appearances, an individual history that has consistently been at the trailing edge of progressive identity based protections, a kissinger befriending potential leader who upon "directing" the killing of another leader laughingly and sociopathically said "we came, we saw, he died" and etc.]
and where the other potential leader embodies a neo-fascist reaction [to that hypermodern present] and who has only two consistent calls: one to nationalism and one to authoritarianism.
one candidate asks voters to find substance in a potential future that is almost completely detached from their personal objective history and the other candidate asks the voters to find substance in one man [himself] coupled with false remembrances of a collective history...
the point: we are far far beyond the kansas of post-modernity...
welcome to the future.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
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^^^^
true.
and so it goes...
and so it goes...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 19, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
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Gary Johnson? Absolutely, and not as a protest vote.
"From remarks by Gary Johnson and William Weld, the Libertarian Party candidates for president and vice president, during an interview at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., on July 7 with Thomas Burr, the club's president:
Thomas Burr: So following on that, Governor, 10 percent doesn't get you elected president. So do you worry about being perceived as a spoiler to the major party candidates such as Ross Perot in '92 or Ralph Nader in 2000?
Gary Johnson: I will lose no sleep if that is the label given to me, and I will reiterate; this is a party that needs crashing.
William Weld: What's to spoil?
Mr. Johnson: What's to spoil? (Applause) . . .
Mr. Burr: Governor Johnson, we've had several questions submitted about this, so I'm just going to ask it. When was the last time you smoked or ingested marijuana?
Mr. Johnson: I did this about two months ago, it's been about two months. And when you tell the truth, really, you don't have anything to fear. I've always maintained that you should not be on the job impaired. Well, as of two months ago, really this is a 24/7 job running for president of the United States. And as president of the United States, that also is a 24/7 job. So in my lifetime, I think I have more than demonstrated my ability to be self disciplined. I haven't had a drink of alcohol in 29 years. I wasn't an alcoholic, it had everything to do with rock climbing and the immediacy of rock climbing and being the best you could possibly be. But this is the truth component that I think is really also lacking in politics.
Who would know that I ingested marijuana products two months ago? My best friends and if I'd have said, 'Hey, I don't use it, or I haven't used them,' my best friends would consider me a hypocrite. And I think hypocrisy is the one unforgivable in life. Doing one thing and saying another. (Applause)
Mr. Burr: Just to clarify, are you saying that if elected president, you would not ingest or smoke marijuana as president?
Mr. Johnson: That is correct, yes."
[Emphasis supplied.]
I wish we could elicit that level of candor from all the candidates.
John
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 19, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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ou are still basing your conclusion on something he can't do, and hasn't done.
Just about every President since FDR has expanded the use of executive orders, of found other novel ways to enhance executive power. The internment of the Japanese Americans was an executive order. Obama has taken the ball and run with it. What is to defend us from the next President taking it to he wall?
I understand your position, Clinton will be trouble. She has enriched herself taking money from foreign governments while in office as Secretary of State. That alone should disqualify her. And the fact that she could stand face to face, eye to eye, and tell the parents of men killed in Bengazi a bold faced lie just stops me in my tracks. I know, Bengazi is "old news", but that doesn't change the sociopathic tendencies that act revealed.
Where we disagree is that I can't imagine Trump in there either. So our only hope is to have a Republican Congress. Clinton will be a much better negotiator with Congress than "my way or the highway" Obama. So each side can get some of what they want but not all. And Trump basically has the Reps with their panties so far up their butts that they'll frustrate him any chance they can get. But then there's that business of exec orders no matter who wins.
I'm so sick of all of this I don't know why I'm even chatting about it. Cathartic I guess.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 19, 2016 - 10:29pm PT
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There were a couple of great Samantha Bee programs about a month ago about Gary Johnson & the Libertarian Party. While there were potshots galore, Johnson does come across as actually relatively rational, honest, and self-effacing.
He's the most moderate of the Libertarians, which gives the rest of them fits, but he's balanced enough in those views that it just about works.
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