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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
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Exactly Crank, that has not made sense to us either.
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
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tdg119, in answer to your question, closest is Blue couliar probally under 10 mi from shady and a relatively easy approach.
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cyberdee
Trad climber
Lynwood, CA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
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Just a thought...Could he have taken the Gondola up to the top to sight see and play on some snow and ice? This type of outing would not "require" all the usual gear one would take on a solo all day hike. If he did go up the mountain, would he think it would be not much of a challenge to hike back to the camp ground from there? The cell phone ping at 2:53, from the top tower,??????
Maybe somebody could look at the video records from the gondola security cameras. If he did go up there that would give you a little more targeted search area.
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
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I confess that I have been "lurking" for the past couple of weeks reading the posts on this forum and on the facebook page. This story makes me very very sad. Matt's family, friends and students love and miss him a lot!
I also want to say that I am impressed with the local community and everyone that is trying to help (especially Cragman, just WOW!). Me and my husband call Mammoth and June our second home. No place like it on earth and full of such wonderful people:)
I joined the forum this morning and decided to post because I want to communicate a couple of things and there is something bugging me really bad. First, we just got back from spending a few days in Mammoth and June. We saw Matt's Missing flyers at every single place in town and a few places in Bishop. Everyone knows!
Without going into too much detail (it pains me to talk much about it) a few years ago I had a roomate that went missing. Long story short it is VERY difficult when an adult goes missing and there are little clues. It makes the job much more difficult for law enforcement. In the case I was involved in we (family and friends) ended up having to do a lot of the "footwork/research." The outcome of what happened was horrific and the case is not over. It resulted in an arrest and a pending death penalty trial:(
So you ask how does this relate to Matt's missing case? One of the things that I experienced in my situation was STRONG instincts (no I am not a psychic). I have read through the posts more than once and maybe I have missed some facts, but something is really bugging me. Here is a list of my comments & questions (please accept my apologies if I have missed the answers within previous posts):
1. The last phone registration at 2:53 am on 7/16.
2. In reading the posts this seems to be out of character for Matt?
3. I know from experience that usually when law enforcement cell records are obtained under warrants they can have fairly detailed information. From my personal experience I learned that the records can tell a) what tower was pinged b) triangulation c) length of time (in our case they were able to tell us that the phone registered for 17 seconds and was then shut off) d) phone and text messages. The only information I am seeing posted is the date/time and tower. Is that all of the information that is available? When was Matts phone turned on? When was the phone turned off? Can the police help more accurately pinpoint that last location point of phone registration (this would be when the phone was turned on at 2:53 am)?
4. Does anyone know what Matt purchased from Rite Aid?
5. Did anyone look at the security cameras at Rite Aid to see what clothes Matt was wearing?
6. What about computer usage at the library? There are forensic tools that can examine a computer even if the browser search history has been deleted.
7. Has anyone examied the last email and/or forum posts to obtain the IP address(s)?
8. Has anyone checked with the coffee shop called Looney Bean that is next to Rite Aid? I belive they have a computer there that is used by customers (fyi there is a laundry place next door to the coffee shop as well).
And lastly did the police department obtain a complete listing of other camping customers that were staying at the Shady Rest Campground at the same time as Matt? Were any of these customers interviewed? Were any backgrounds of the campers checked?
Has there been any search in places close to town? Perhaps a local search effort planned to start from Shady Rest? If not this might be a good idea to do in addition to Cragmans effort.
In the case I was involved in it all came down to the last phone registration and e-mail.
My heart and prayers go out to Matt's family, friends and the locals putting their personal safety on the line in their search for Matt.
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jeg
Social climber
center valley,Pa
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
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Hi all,
My name is Jill. My husband John and I were with Matt in Mammoth up until July 7.I know we spoke with Cragman on the phone but here are some answers to some of your other questions.
QITNL...The one ice axe missing is from a set of technical tools. If they were sold or stolen I think this would be done as a set. Matt climbed a total of 3000ft of ice this summer. This is why he had his Nepal Extremes. They were the only boots he had with him for his step in crampons.
Splitter....He just bought those boots this Spring, don't think he would sell them. He doesn't hike/climb with "extra stuff". He would drop it off at his car at the shop up the street if he didn't want to leave it at the camp site.
Crankster...We have been up dating Tiffany with our information and then she would post any useful information. We gave her the list of climbs he climbed in prior days and she posted them for us.
We have been following these threads daily and added and necessary information via Tiffany as needed. His car was in and out of the shop since we met him there on June 28th. He knew driving to mammoth something was wrong with his car and dropped it off at the shop the first day. They tried changing the thermostat twice but when Matt would test drive it, he knew it wasn't fixed. He finally took it in for the 3rd time on July 5 and was told it was the head gasget. He was told they couldn't start working on it until July 9. He would text my husband every few days up until July 13 and would give him an update on his car and what climbs he did. This is how we were able to composite a list of climbs he climbed with my husband and climbs he soloed.
I can't Thank you all enough for trying to find our friend. There are some truly great people out there and Matt is one of those "great people"
Be safe Cragman and Thank You so much.
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mattyj
Mountain climber
Truckee
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
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Cragman, thanks for going back out. I'm probably reading too much into it, but given the boots Matt had with him I kept feeling like that glacier was an obvious spot. Wanted to go search it on our day out but there just wasn't enough time. I'm not familiar with the Minarets, but the part that gives me doubt is that I haven't been able to find any nontechnical routes that go through the center of the glacier.
his calls at 8:12 and 3:09 on the 16th were from town (according to the ping off the tower) and the 4:30-4:35 calls to/from the garage were pinging from on top of mammoth or north of there. Which makes no sense. Why would he be in town all day and then go up to mountain.
Keep in mind that cell phone pings are notoriously unreliable, and past location data gleaned from tower logs probably even more so. It would hardly be unprecedented for the cell company to place him near the summit when he was actually in civilization - say, at the base of the gondola.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
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The MLPD told us they only requested cell tower pings for calls not text messages.
The last ping they said was a call at 4.30pm PT on July 16th received off the Mammoth Mt. Cell Tower. Direction was pointing North West. – Not really too relevant because we know he was back at shady rest at 8pm. We also know this was the call to the repair shop when they told him his car would be ready on the 18th.
The MLPD said they did not request text pings, we asked them to get these ASAP! No word yet, that was 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately, the MLPD has not been very responsive.
We really really really need the ping location of the 2.53am text on the morning of July 17th. – The PD is not providing this to us. We called Verizon; they will not give it to us.
I will post the phone logs.
~Ron
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
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Jill, thanks, that answers a lot of questions. Makes sense to me that he headed out for the day with the gear list described. Cragman is searching the most likely spot - the Ritter/Minaret's area.
Another unfortunate accident shows how easily things can go wrong: http://www.sierrawave.net/26125/man-falls-to-death/
Be careful, Cragman - throw on a helmet!
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jeg
Social climber
center valley,Pa
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Aug 23, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
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The 2:53am on the 17th was a text received not a call. Detective stated, Verizon can not ping a text just calls or if your phone is currently on.
Here is the info on the phone call on the 16th. Everything else after that were texts.
8:12 am to 3:06 pm, July 16, 2013 - Lat 37.638167 Lon -118.961611, 1601 Meridian Blvd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca. Directly south of the library. Directly north a mile or two is where Greene was camping.
4:29 pm to 4:35 pm, July 16, 2103 – Lat 37.630528 Log -119-033078, 5920 Minaret Rd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, top of Mammoth Mountain.
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jeg
Social climber
center valley,Pa
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Aug 23, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
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Mguzzy...My husband was in the storage area to collect all of matt's belongings, so he would of had a good look to make sure nothing was left behind.
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jeg
Social climber
center valley,Pa
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Aug 23, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
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We can not get any more info. from the detective via verizon about the texts. No ping info for texts and the text was from one of Matt's friends. He no longer has the text and can not remeber what it was about.
East side underground.... Anyone know about Blue Coular? I know it sounds corney but someone had a dream about Matt and "blue diamond"
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
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Blue Couloir is a popular backcountry ski (see pic from web) on the Mammoth Crest. Doesn't seem like a place for an ice climber.
Cragman, any snow/ice in Blue Couloir?
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Aug 23, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
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Blue couliar is where I would go if I wanted to test out ice gear/ boots. Very easy approach, not to far out there and one could round trip from shady without shuttle. decievingly steep and definately will find neve/ice, certianly alot closer than the Ritter range which would be a huge day from shady imo. Just an idea, who knows? Good luck
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
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@ Jeg - that is weird about the dream with the blue diamond. I had a dream 3 weeks ago where Matt was holding a blue diamond shaped crystal. I told Tiffany about at the time but just chalked it up to nonsense ~ Ron
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 23, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
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Do you have the location of Blue Couloir? At least descriptively?
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
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Mguzzy you are correct.
1. Application for Search Warrant (approved by local judge or magistrate)
2. This document in general contains:
-Property/Evidence to be Seized (in this case it would read something like "Detailed records of both incoming and outgoing calls and text messages for phone number XXX-XXX-XXXX for time period XX/XX/XXXX to XX/XX/XXXX")
-Premises, Person, Vehicle, or other item(s) to be searched (in this case it would read something like "a complete database search or all records in the custody and/or control of Verizon for the above listed accounts")
-Probable Cause Affidavit this section contains a narrative of the event(s)/circumstance(s) that justifies the issuing of the warrant. This is generally a sworn statement of the investigating officer/applicant and is counter signed when authorized by the court/judge. Basically it contains the legal grounds for issuance of the warrant.
In general there is a statement to the party of which the warrant is issued that gives them a directive that they are to execute the search warrant within a specified period of time (typically 48 hours).
Does anyone know if formal search warrants were issued for phone, e-mail, banking, credit card(s), video footage from Rite Aid and/or campground records?
Also has anyone checked Bishop Gear Exchange to see if any of Matts gear is there (long shot, but they have a lot of used gear on consignment there).
Sending prayers to family and friends........
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east side underground
climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Aug 23, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
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Blue couliar is located on the south -east end of the mammoth creast . easily viewed from the lakes basin. out of cold water trail head take the trail to emeral lake up towards Hamil . Blue crag is the prominate feature you see on the crest looking SE. from Mammoth Mt. If Mattew was a solid ice climber blue couliar probably would not hold any interest to him, it's just the closest ice to town that I can think of, Bloody is bone dry, after a couple of poor winters only the most north facing are holding snow /ice. Sorry I don't have any photos on my computer. Cheers
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Aug 23, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
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MGuzzy
Mammoth Lakes falls within Mono County. I would think the family knows if MLPD went through a formal search warrant process. If MLPD did I would think under FOIA they could obtain copies, though it varies for active investigations.
One of the problems we encountered in the past is that missing adult cases without firm probable cause can be a problem in obtaining search warrants. I am no lawyer, just speaking from what we went through (I ended up finding the probable cause that enabled issuing the search warrants). In Matts case I would think that the abandoned car and campsite along with length of time would be sufficient, though recommend asking the detective. I can say that unfortunately due to drastic town budget cuts the MLPD was hit hard (they are down to 9 paid officers). There has been a lot of "activity" in the town lately and honestly I think the department is stretched very thin (heard from a friend that most officers end up having to work most all of their days off).
I am curious about forensics on the computer at the library, IP address(s) from e-mails, video from Rite Aid and REALLY curious as to the guest registrations at the campground.
I have had nothing but good dealings with the staff at the Gear Exchange (fyi it is the same company as Mammoth Mountaineering in town). If anyone has pictures or solid descriptions of missing/unaccounted for gear I recommend contacting them directly. I would be happy to (have time on my hands), but I am lacking information. I recommend someone call them just to mark it off a list of places/things checked (process of elimination). They are very helpful, especially at the Bishop Gear Exchange. [Edit] Also if any of Matts gear is found there the store keeps contact information such as phone number and name for each person that has consigned gear
If taking all of the information from these posts and putting it together in a detailed timeline document would help anyone let me know and I would be happy to do this (it is the least I can do to help).
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 23, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
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Regarding the missing gear, people here have argued convincingly that it points to the Ritter Range or some other place with snow/ice as a destination and that unfortunately Matt could easily have ran into trouble there. It’s wonderful that Cragman, Martyj, and their colleagues have been searching these very dangerous places.
But even if one of those places was his intended destination, we don’t whether he might not have met with trouble before he got to the trailhead, or even before leaving town. We don’t know his mode of transportation (walking? hitching? shuttle?) and whether something might have happened en route.
It would be weird if psychics and dreams play a role in finding Matt, but stranger things have happened. I do hope that places near town that are similar to those the psychic described can be searched, even if it seems as if Matt could not have been overlooked if he’d had an accident in such a place. Are any of the ravines with water or other places similar to the ones she thought of on the way to one of the possible big hikes that Matt might have been going on??
Regarding people’s dreams about blue diamonds/crystals, could it be relevant that ski trials in the area (including one to the Earthquake Fault that people mentioned) are marked with blue diamonds? (There's also Crystal Lake and Crag...)
http://www.cityconcierge.com/mammoth-lakes/winter/blue-diamond-trail
To Matt’s family and friends, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. To those who are trying to solve this and especially those who are putting your lives on the line searching, you have my appreciation and admiration.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 23, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
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We're all starting to hypothesize so I'll add another unlikely scenario.
Someone (a climber) might have only wanted his lovely big pack, crampons and new boots and nothing else. Is his ice axe also missing?
There's a major (and likely) assumption that Matt took this gear with him. The negative is also a (unlikely) possibility.
My best hunch is Matt went out in the Minarets/Ritter/Banner area with an ice-climbing objective and meant to be back the same day.
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