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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Wes, let me know when you want to come out it's in woodfords canyon. that's one of many
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Dickly
Social climber
KY
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sweet choss broski, lets get a few other boys and we can have a circle jerk under it, I'll bring the dubstep and a heater!
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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...I am really starting to get a sense that I am wasting my time here...
Why? Just because everybody has given up on reason and begun laughing at you?
Curt
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I've been there. Hiked in from some scruffy cliffs just up canyon. Seemed like a day of problems if you were psyched. I was psyched when I saw that... until I scoped the (lack of) grips. It might warrant another look... with our new perspective and all...
Come to think of it, I'm pretty out of hiking shape and I think it would take me all day to get back to it. Remind me though... is it like low double digits, or like v20?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Some nice gossip and mostly meaningless discussion about the Gunks......nice counterpoint to the same Yosemitecentric gossip and mostly meaningless discussion repeated here ad nauseum.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jim makes a good point. Eastern nonsense is poorly represented here. For some reason, Supertopo seem to prefer Western absurdities. But too much of the same diet can be debilitating, and so I'm glad if, even in some small way, I can contribute to the diversification of incoherence so necessary for a balanced internet dialog.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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This sh#t is awesome, it reminds of some of the BS issues that first attracted me to climbing
Yeah, its real life drama, like a reality show where any one of us can call the other guy out for being a retard. It gets a little out of control sometimes, but if there was no one like Donald (and Patrick) stepping up to the plate and taking on everyone else, how boring would it be?
To be honest, if they put in a new Walmart at the hairpin turn and excavated and dynamited the entire Trapps, my life would go on. But these little soap operas will get me to pay attention.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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... meaningless discussion repeated here ad nauseum. If we are so nauseating, then why waste your time?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2013 - 01:57am PT
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A moo point. It's like a Cow's opinion. Just doesn't matter.
It's moo.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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but if there was no one like Donald (and Patrick) stepping up to the plate and taking on everyone else, how boring would it be?
At least someone gets it. I never debated this incident specifically, but rock modification as a whole spectrum that starts with chalk, cleaning lichen, anchors, bolts, permadraws, ticks...
...show a non-climber a photo of the madness cave then show them the Ivan video and ask which has more impact. the 'ethics' are in our heads.
Really, my main problem is with this new public shaming concept. I think it sucks and is bad for the sport. I am not buying that DPM tried everything they could do to talk to Ivan and this was a last resort. I suspect there are some personal issues with Ivan that aren't being brought to light.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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OPEN LETTER TO THE GUNKS CLIMBING COMMUNITY
For the purpose of land preservation and stewardship we all who have this interest and intent here now as members of this community ask all too now come together in this. Please submit here, for the names of any climbs or boulder problems you may know of that have been Chipped, Chopped, or Bolted, the names of the people who have chipped them, the date, and their exact location for this. Please provide photographic evidence if you can. You can email me directly [1.]. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
THE GUNKS GUIDE TO CHIPPED CHOPPED BOLTED REPAIRED CLIMBS AND BOULDER PROBLEMS. By Donad Perry
Chipped Climbs.
1978 Lost World 5.11,
Donald Perry Chipped hold under 1st Pitch 5.9 Roof used for protection.
1980's Gill Egg,
Painted and chipped by vandals. The first hold used to be a lot better.
1986 The Zone 5.13-
Jeff Gruenberg, Jack Meleski 2nd Pitch The French Connection 5.12+ Jack Meleski, Jeff Gruenberg. Chipped and manufactured bucket just over lip on overhang. Previously only a thin seam with a insignificant 1/4” crescent edge over the top of it. The previous formation was part of a bar of rock that has been snapped off, and can be made out shadowed on the wall as darker rock.
1990's Gill's Double Clutch Direct
Chipped by two men learning to aid climb for Yosemite.
1990's Gill Problem left of Katzenjammer
Small rock in crack that would never have come out.
Bolted or Chopped Climbs.
1955 Dry Martini 5.7
Hans Kraus, Bonnie Prudden, Lucien Warner
1959 Turdland 5.9+
Jim McCarthy, Jack Hansen
1959 Wonderland 5.8-
Art Gran, Eric Stern
1959 Never Never Land 5.10-
Dave Craft, Jim McCarthy, Art Grand
1960 Arrow Willie 5.8
Crowther Gardiner Perry
1963 Phoebe 5.10+
Dick Williams
1963 Squiggles Direct 5.10
Dick Williams, John Hudson
1956 Thin Slabs 5.7-
Art Grand, John Wharton, Bob Chambers
1964 Sente 5.8+
Wille Crowther
1966 Yellow Wall
Dick Williams, Ants Leemets
1968 Blackout 5.9
Dick Williams Dave Craft Dick DuMais Bolt over roof.
1970 Scary Area 5.12
Dick Williams? Same make as the bolt on Phoebe. The bolt was placed by an eerily party who set out to free it. Previously, Roy Kligfield and Dave Ingalls had done it with NO bolts in 1969.
1971 J'accuse (bolt chopped) 5.10
Patrick Cordier, Jim McCarthy
1973 Keep On Struttin' 5.9+
Dave Loeks, Walter Baumann
1978 Scary Area 5.12
Donald Perry drilled two slots for the passive use of crackinups.
1978 Scary Area 5.15
John Bragg, Mark Robinson. One new bolt added as a reaction to Donald Perry’s complaints, who were the members of the 1st free ascent party, due to the fact that the climb is deceptive and was a death trap and the bolt now there was questionable.
1978 Beer And Loathing 5.11-
Dave Loeks and Dick Williams. Three bolts placed on aid. This was done after a no bolt ethic had been adopted by property owners and the climbing community.
1986 Pumping Pygmies 5.13
Al Diamond, Russ Clune. This was done after a no bolt ethic had been adopted by property owners and the climbing community.
1986 Pumping Pygmies 5.13
Chopped by? Bolt chopped and pin removed a couple of days after placement on rappel. No free ascent. This was done after a no chop ethic had been adopted by property owners and the climbing community.
1986 The Zone 5.13-
Jeff Gruenberg, Jack Meleski This was done after a no bolt ethic had been adopted by property owners and the climbing community.
Repaired Climbs.
1978 Lost World 5.11,
Donald Perry. Slot was repaired with material similar in color to the rock.
1978 Scary Area 5.12
Donald Perry. The two holes filled with conglomerate material, which even today are very difficult to find. History: RR was not able to find them.
Notes
[1.] Because Gunks.com does not have a format for privately re-editing posts this list cannot be copied but will remain exclusively and current only on Suppertopo.com.
[2.] Soon to be edited.
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Having witnessed the various and dubious arguments rationalizing chipping in altering rock climbs for the past 30 years, I have distilled a summary of points in response:
(For clarification, I define chipping as the alteration of otherwise solid rock to provide or improve a gripping feature that was otherwise unusable. It avoids the other issues of cleaning, gardening, removing loose flakes etc. that some may also find offensive)
1. History has consistently shown us that one person's Last Great Impossible Route very soon becomes just another trade route, then warm-up, then babysitter's friend.
2. As time passes, the manner in which contemporary climbers view the older testpieces primarily rests on the style in which it was accomplished; in every era, the bozo chipper's route is always relegated to the sh*tpile,and his/her name is added to the list of moronic wannabes who never really got the essence of what climbing is. "Can you believe old Wobblefus actually had to chip to climb a 5.11?!!?? ha, ha, ha!"
3. Actually, feeling obligated to add the /her above for gender parity does a disservice to female climbers, because I know of no woman who has ever resorted to such tactics, perhaps because they are not as quickly blinded by their own amazing brilliance the way guys are.
4. Like "patriotism", chipping is the last resort of the scoundrel.
5. Whenever someone invests a lot of time and energy into a project, without success, the temptation to cut corners, pun intended, grows. Morally inferior individuals will succumb and immediately thereafter feel chipper's remorse, forcing them to spew volumes of rhetorical garbage in justification, to no avail.
6. The flawed argument that appears to accomodate chipping, or any other lesser offense, merely because it is NOT (Hitler, shooting kindergardners, etc.) is classic. Elevating the bar so high that everything else waltzes under it does not justify anything. In fact, I would bet if you are too spineless to challenge a mere hold chipper, you certainly would not be able to tackle a crazed shooter.
7. The "oh, so your doing . . . . (such and such) isn't the same thing/just as bad......" argument. Two poor actions do not justify each other. Every action must be judged on its own merits, and not attached to something else for justification.
8. The greatest unsung climbers may be the ones who refrain from chipping, etc. once they recognize their limits, knowing that one day a stronger person will likely be able to succeed without tainting the rock, and the sport. Taking your sport and yourself so seriously as to trash the medium that provides your "canvas" is to disrespect the earth itself.
9. Ever sensitive to the fallout from such behavior, sponsors should spell it out in writing - any climber found to be chipping shall be released from all sponsorship. The Court of Public Opinion is all that matters. Thankfully, by and large that Court still considers such tactics as affronts to our sport and lifestyle. Keep the pressure on.
10. Since there are no drug tests in climbing, chipping may the closest thing we have as an external test for who to scorn, despise, and ridicule.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Donald Perry has got to be one of the stupidest fcuks to have ever posed on this disco.
Wings of Steel redux.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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I think you don't understand what I am doing. I am starting a record, to keep track of where all the damage is. This is not a guidebook for climbing. I am not happy about what I did in the past, but I am not going to leave it out. Come to think of it, then again, I suppose it serves my purpose that you think I am an as#@&%e, because I am trying to do something to discourage chipping. So thanks, keep posting hate mail.
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prickle
Gym climber
globe,az
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i don't know when or who but supposedly the crimps on the boxcar arete were "softened".
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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i don't know when or who but supposedly the crimps on the boxcar arete were "softened".
Thanks, I will go there and take some photos.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sorry to encourage the Donald, but....
If he is documenting all the chipping (preferably with the chipper so we can shame them for fuking with our medium), I find that acceptable.
Just don't try to down play the hammer because it isn't technically a sledge or try to pretend pounding on something for 2 minutes with a chisel is required to remove loose stuff. I know for a fact that it is NOT.
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