Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
|
As often happens in these types of conversations the rhetoric move towards the extremes which doesn't help anybody understand anyone else's position.
IMO the two extremes don't work:
We can't make all guns illegal. There are MANY millions of guns in the US. If you tried to make guns illegal it truly would be only the criminals who have guns. There's been too many years of too many guns for this to work in the US. Plus I do agree with the 2nd amendment that people should be able to defend themselves from an out of control government. I really, really doubt that would ever happen in the USA, but you never know, look at the overreaction to 9/11 and the Patriot act. Politicians ARE willing to erode what should be unalienable rights.
We can't make all guns legal with no restrictions. We can't have anyone walking into wal mart and walking out with a Browning .50 caliber machine gun.
The question really is what is the appropriate level of gun control, and what restrictions can limit the number of very dangerous weapons in the country while minimizing the limitations on law abiding citizens.
The whole idea of anyone should have any type of weapon with any capacity leads to an arms race. And the people who think I'm fine I have my assault weapon with a high capacity mag is a pretty selfish view. What about the people who don't want anything to do with guns. Is it ok that thousands or million of these weapons are floating around as long as you've got yours? What about friends or relatives that don't have them? I believe in limits to what is available because I'd rather keep those additional thousands or millions of highly destructive weapons out of the country.
What do you people who need to have guns to feel safe do when you travel where you can't bring guns? I have guns but have NEVER once got myself into a situation where I felt I needed them, and I have traveled to almost every state, and many countries. I guess I'm smart enough to avoid the bad places and bad people. Seems much safer than relying on a gun.
And there are uses for many types of guns beyond killing people or self defense. The main one is hunting. Many people are hard wired for hunting, it was a way of life for millions of years before modern times. I hate killing anything but I see the appeal of the challenge of tracking and humanely taking out something to eat, if there is an overpopulation of a specific species and it's causing an ecological imbalance I have not problem assuming that apex predator role (often due to killing off the natural top of the food chain). The other one is sport. It's fun and challenging to shoot accurately, similar to how it's fun and challenging to climb. It's just that climbing is WAY better because it's mainly about you instead of being dependent on a gun that you buy.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 02:36pm PT
|
Fet,
From the sport side of things it depends FAR more on skill than "what type of gun you buy". There's a whole world inside that sport just like climbing. From loading/making your own ammo to the truly thousands of rounds and hundreds of hours it takes to truly become proficient in any one weapon system. And just like climbing that's got to be maintained or your performance in competition suffers greatly.
Good to see someone thinks outside the box.
There is no "violence" on a gun range. It's a bunch of men AND women (90/10) having a great time. Women I've met in competative shooting actually tend to be better than most men. It's one sport where there really is no difference.
That's the most popular misconception that legal shooters who may carry concealed (some don't) are a violent bunch. We're really not paranoid nut cases itching to kill something. Not even a little bit. We're just more prepared for bad things that 'might' happen and hopefully never will.
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
|
Paranoia? Or Prepared?
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
|
You got the full cite on that Jody (if you are still reading)? JQC is a favorite journal of mine. Just reviewed some manuscripts for them yesterday. I can't find Ron's comment to find the cite myself. Thanks if you care to share...
edit:
Strange that when looked into, the statistics do not support any conclusions on whether or not gun ownership has a positive or negative affect on crime... it's the worst possible result since both sides can continue to offer their opinion.
One cannot support the claim that having a gun prevents crime... there isn't the evidence, nor can one say that having a gun causes more crime.
It's partly a temporal issue. Like capital punishment and high crime rates. Which came first? Difficult to disentangle but fun to research!
double edit:
That's the most popular misconception that legal shooters who may carry concealed (some don't) are a violent bunch. We're really not paranoid nut cases itching to kill something. Not even a little bit. We're just more prepared for bad things that 'might' happen and hopefully never will.
Like so many groups that operate under the weight of a popular misconception. For example, government workers. Or professors (routinely mislabelled as teachers). Or police officers. Or dog owners. The list goes on and on. Unfortunately for all, it's a minority that f*#k it up for everyone, no?
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
|
Yep. You got it Crimper.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
|
Anders,
I might be paranoid, but why does that mean that they are not out to get me?
Jim,
my vote in the Presidential race is worthless besides a "statement".
Romney will take Utah's electoral votes.
So I'm voting for Gary Johnson.
But no matter WHO wins I bet my ordnance goes up in value, and if it is Romney chances are my portfolio will improve too.
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:16pm PT
|
How about not allowing psychiatric patients guns, particularly assault weapons?
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
|
Thanks Jody.
Doh - didn't see your direct link first!
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:31pm PT
|
We already have a ban on importing assault weapons. Stop the wordplay.
If we don't allow psychiatric patients getting guns, then how did Holmes get them?
Apparently it's quite easy for psychos to get them. How about making some compromises and toughen access?
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:35pm PT
|
Uh,.. monolith.
The "ban" expired.
Please define your term; "assault weapon".
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:37pm PT
|
Not the import ban. Pay attention Ron.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:38pm PT
|
Wrong. Sheesh "Newsvine.com" says there is an assault weapons ban so it MUST be true!
Please define your term.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:44pm PT
|
Third polite request.
Please define your term.
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:46pm PT
|
Ask the ATF. They are the experts.
Love the wordplay you guys have to resort to.
We do have to make arbitrary decisions in life.
|
|
Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
|
|
|
Jul 27, 2012 - 05:46pm PT
|
Monolith, read the law...it never uses the term "assault weapons" that I could find...Because that term is not well defined anywhere.
The 1989 Semi-Automatic Rifle Import Ban (18 USC 925(d)(3) can be found on the ATF's website.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!