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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Oh,I do apologize, M.H., for some reason I thought you spent a bunch of time last summer scrubbing and bolting Slab Alley. Sorry, must've been someone else.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I wonder who in the world he could be referring to? Jeremy? Robin? Kris? There's quite a list of likely suspects, but none is on the FOSC committee. As my 'cleaning' activities never amounted to much, and are now nearly negligible, it can't be me - indeed, I've been known to speak out against other's excesses in that regard.
So let me see if I understand this. You are unhappy with the idea of the gondola polluting the area, and if it does go in you will never ride it. Likewise, you are against scrubbing routes clean, and if routes do get scrubbed clean you will never cli...
Hmmm. Where was I going with that thought. Almost seemed like... No. Anders is an honorable man. If he would refuse to ride the gondola because putting a gondola in that spot is wrong, the surely he would refuse to get on routes that were too heavily cleaned.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Now now Casper the Friendly. That type of rhetoric won't get you a button from the Fifty and Older Social Club.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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I never mentioned Anders was making any type of political point at all, and for all I care he can re-scrub every route on the Apron till it sparkles.
I'm simply making an effort to pass on the view from the street, so to speak. Or, in this case, the highway. Because if Anders wants to have any success shutting this thing down, it's the people on the street he'll need to win over, not the fourteen unhappy climbers on supertopo.
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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So let me get this straight, this woman feels as strongly about moss removal as she does about tree removal in a park. Then in the same breath say's she doesn't understand what the big deal is in putting up a kilometre long gondola through a park to a restaurant and interpretive centre?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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I don't know Jim, just seems like you can't have your cake and eat it too.
As a group, climbers feel they have every right to swarm all over the Chief, scrub the daylights out of the rock, cut down countless number of trees (some of which took hundreds of years to grow in their precarious positions), and drill bolts beside cracks to make guiding (money-making) easier. Throw in a little detour to Murrin Provincial Park for some real-man's tree falling to fascilitate climbing at Pet wall.
Now Parks wants to re-zone a strip of land for the gondola guys and the climbers have their knickers in a twist regarding development. The climbers have been developing the area for decades. Just have a peek at the irony of the conundrum from Joe Public's point of view.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Naughty Hamish! Wicked Hamish! No button for you. (No doughnut either.) You have much to learn about trolling, grasshopper. The notion that my bit of cleaning to restore historic Slab Alley is discernible to any but attentive climbers is a bit of a stretch. Certainly not from the road. I'm sure that 'civilians' can see the over-exuberant 'cleaning' efforts of some, on the Apron, around the Chief, and at the LSB. It seems unlikely that includes much if any of Slab Alley.
I have no objection to cleaning. It has its place, as long as climbers remember that we share the area, and allow for natural and human values. Some don't, unfortunately. After all, I helped write the master plan, and then the climbing strategy, a good part of which addresses cleaning. And have in a very modest way cleaned a few climbs. I've also spoken out against excessive cleaning for 30 years.
routes that were too heavily cleaned And there's the rub, eh?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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She's a soccer mom who's willing to go with the flow. And who knows, maybe they'll have a corner in the interpretive area devoted to moss species.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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O.K., Anders, I apologize, again. I wasn't aware there are several levels of scrubbing, or aware there are written rules on the subject.
This is somewhat educational for me and now I understand that you condemn the scrubbing practices at the base of the Apron but you're fine with a "light" scrub. I'm getting it, slowly. Nobody ever said it wasn't complicated, that's for sure. Again, I'm sorry. In the future I'll try to tread (scrub) lightly.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks, Hamish. We are all just friends, hashing over current affairs and interests. Not so different from the past. And it's hard to convey nuance with this internetz thingie. Still, I wish you and Bruce would subject the proposal to the same level of criticism you aim at me. For example, ask the developers if they talked with any prospective partners or purchasers, and what happened.
FWIW, a helpful friend who happens to be a professor of forestry has informed us that the park and area, including the land that would be taken for the gondola, are: "in the dry maritime (dm) subzone of the Coastal Western Hemlock biogeoclimatic (ecological) zone. This is one of the most poorly protected zones in BC, and the dm subzone is one of the most poorly protected subzones of the CWH." He also advises that the removal of a strip of land through the park would affect more than just that strip: "bisecting a park has effects on land and ecosystems adjacent to the bisecting corridor."
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Geeze Louise, sorry everybody. I honestly didn't know there was a "scrubbing scale" in effect around these parts. I mean, Ive scrubbed a few routes myself. I couldn't get them to look like the new ones at the base of the Apron but that was mostly due to attention span difficulties and a limited supply of time and brushes. So climbers scrubbed the snot out of the base of the Apron; so Anders scrubbed a route up higher. So what; scrub-a-dub-dub. It was all scrubbing to me until a few posts ago when I became educated on all the varying degrees of scrubbing. Holy Moly.
I move for a post from Scrubber; just seems so timely and we haven't heard from him for awhile.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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A fair question might be, why would the party wanting to put up the gondola justify the purchase of the gravel pit from the owner unless it had some assurance of being fast-tracked through the local and provincial processes?
Is such a purchase without assurances of being allowed to do the project, a typical business risk?
Just wondering...
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Jim, as Bruce answered you 23 hours ago, have you costed out the drilling and blasting expenses to create a six-acre flat piece of turf down to the south. You're in construction; how are those road-building (in rock) quotes coming in these days? Costly stuff.
We all would way rather the tram go in down the hwy a bit further, and who knows, perhaps that'll be how the cookie crumbles. I wouldn't be surprised if the difference was in the millions and millions.
Also, I hate to bring it up but everyones' timing stinks. These proponents truly did have many open houses, meetings,etc., all starting last summer. Ideally, somewhere in those initial public consultations would've been the place for what we continue to spin on this site. To bring all these concerns in the last month, after they've purchased the land, got the District's approval, got the letter of reccomendation from B.C. Parks, had an overwhelming (seemingly, anyway) support from the public; well, the timing is less than perfect.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I had a look around Britannia Beach a few weeks ago, as the map, and google earth, indicated there were possibilities. There appears to be a fair amount of flat or flattish land on the 'uphill' side of the power lines, which is road accessible. There would surely be private property, neighbourhood, road access issues, and the like, but it appears to be physically possible. It might be somewhat like Grouse, though not so far off the main road.
There also appear to be possibilities for a gondola going up the ridge between Britannia and Furry Creeks, perhaps from somewhere above the top of the Furry Creek hill.
Neither, of course, has Shannon Falls bus tourists or a casino nearby. But that doesn't seem to affect Grouse.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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The person(s) who just bought the "makin lands" south of Brittania paid cash apparently. Maybe they want to toss a few duffellbags of cash towards the gondola being built more south to draw people to their "new" community....or so one could speculate. Seems like they got a nice gravel pit all ready to go!
Chinese developer Taicheng buys Britannia lands to build 4,000-unit community
A Chinese development company feels it has struck gold with a $30.5 million purchase of land surrounding Britannia’s infamous mine.
The Taicheng Development Corporation plans on constructing a sustainable community of up to 4,000 homes after scooping up close to 480 acres of land through a court-ordered, cash sale.
The property includes the gravel pit directly south of Britannia mine, the former Makin Lands, and land that stretches up to the top of Furry Creek, said project manager Paul Prade on Saturday.
The property includes the gravel pit directly south of Britannia mine, the former Makin Lands, and land that stretches up to the top of Furry Creek, said project manager Paul Prade on Saturday.
“(Taicheng) have been scouting projects in different areas and when they saw this, the owner, Peter Cheng, just absolutely fell in love with the property and its location,” Prade said.
“It was something he couldn’t believe was available.”
The former owner of the land fell into financial hardship and had been unable to sell the property.
The first phase of the development, called South Britannia, is between one to two years away from the start of construction, and will feature a town centre at the gravel pit location with some commercial space and residential units.
Taicheng will bring in more funds to complete the project.
Civil engineers drilled wells in the area in late 2011, and water levels will be tested for 12 months.
Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/Chinese+developer+Taicheng+buys+Britannia+lands+build+unit+community/6319636/story.html#ixzz1rmSTu6hR
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Start? I thought we started recycling on page 3!!!
More like at post 3
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Another day (well, when school got out) asking two of the local mummacittas at the school playground their views on the gondy. They were both pretty much for it, but mostly from an economic stand point. Their husbands rarely work in Squamish and they see a slight economic benefit with the Tram. They weren't too happy about an easement through the Park, but both are ex-whistlerites and knew about the precedent set with Blackcomb.
One of the Moms grew up in West Van and spent her first eighteen years driving to Whistler and never stopping in Squamish; now that she is a resident I think she feels a little bitter about all the money driving through and not stopping.
When I asked their opinion specifically on the gondy and the easement, regardless of any economic spin offs, they were still keen although felt it was a shame to cut through the Park.
Then I ran into my friend Jake, who is always pretty blunt and to the point. In his trademark low voice, he suggested the other side of the river, across from downtown or the railyards, would be much better as that area had even less access than the Habrich zone.
If the boys placed their tram over there, with the first span rising above the river, I would have to imagine the economic gains for downtown Squamish would be greater than if the lift was over at the Park.
Of course there are heaps of power lines on that slope above the Squamish River but I'm sure the views would be equally as magnificent.
That wraps up another day on the street, or at least an hour after work.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thank you. One of the alternatives in the 2009 Oceanfront Development Corp. study was a gondola from the downtown to Mt. Lapworth, or another location on the west side of the Squamish River. It ought at least to bring traffic into downtown Squamish, which the current proposal - or for that matter one on Goat Ridge - seems unlikely to do much of.
Many of the recent comments simply highlight the failure of BC Parks to publicly do its job well, including a resourced, independent and transparent review of the proposal, and independent public meetings.
Whether it's alternative locations, the actual impacts and benefits, the biogeoclimatic zone, the commitments made by the developers and whether they'd be binding, the process, or many other issues, none of us have the resources of the governments or the developer. FOSC has done its best to discuss concerns and issues, based on the information and resources available, and with a rightly skeptical attitude toward the developer's claims.
As for the biogeoclimatic zone - well, you were demanding facts. A report from a professional who knows the area seemed to fit the bill.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Yes, well Jim B. mentioned this about 347,000 posts ago and I must say that after talking to a myriad of people here in the center of the Universe, it's shocking how many of them want to bring people into the downtown core.
This gondola will be pretty hi tech and no matter where it commences, I would put it under the heading of "build it and they will come".
Seems as if we have an unhappy group due to the Park easement, an unhappy group watching their downtown limp along, and a couple of businessmen that could cheer up both crowds.
There are a huge amount of hydro lines up on that slope; tough one.
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