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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 18, 2010 - 03:09pm PT
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Ron,
C'mon. You think we are going to have immediate change?
They have just begun to realize what this all means. They do not want accountability that is a given. They are trying to figure out how to keep the people of the World from looking over their shoulder and holding them to account.
Sounds to me as if we are indeed torturing PFC Manning. What is his crime? Exposing crime and corruption within the DoD? Letting the World know that we waste civilians and Rueters News cameramen without prejudice as though it was a violent blood-thirsty video game?
So now by mistreating PFC Manning we are now doing crimes on top of crimes. When is this madness going to stop? Can't the DoD see that this is going to blow-up in their face, and they are only proving to the World how corrupt and without a moral and ethical compass they truly are?
Ron, it seems you can't deal honestly with the crimes and corruption within our government. You just want to sweep it all back under the rug and go after the messenger just like those within our government who are corrupt. Shame. Why is this?
JA/Wikileaks is doing it right. The leaks have to be redacted with the cooperation of News agencies, and each needs to be looked at in their own due time. To flood all of them at once we wouldn't have the opportunity to look at each one in turn. You need time to read each one and determine what it means. He is doing the right thing by leaking them out a few at a time. All about impact and fully understanding what each means and their implications.
Judgement Day for the US of A came early. I hope we can use this as a means of self-examination and correct our ways and stop the corruption and the bullying around the World. Time will tell. It will either get better or worse. I do not think it will stay the same.
And the World will be watching what we do. It is called accountability. The US of A should get used to it, and change for the better. I'm pretty sure most of the World wants us to do better and correct our ways. There was a time when we were looked up-to as a role model of democracy and freedom. When we abide-ed by our Constitution and Bill of Rights. The GOP/Republicans/NeoCons have wasted our good name and our moral standing in the world. I would like to see the day that we get it back.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 18, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
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I guess you know it is true based on the reaction it gets. I mean, Klimmer can come up with the outrageous claims of aliens blowing up the WTC and he is still allowed to teach high school. But you report on the west's genocide in the middle east and they... uh... what can they do... oh, I know... frame him for rape.
WC,
Boy that is 100% doggy poop. Why do you make up crap like that? How does making up stuff and going over the top help your arguement?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 18, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
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Wikileaks has gone after those countries Ron. The stuff about the Saudis was totally embarrassing for them
Peace
Karl
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 18, 2010 - 04:50pm PT
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he is a spy. Worse than the Russians during the cold war. Everything he does is AGAINST the USA. Why do you think he fears extradition here so much?? and i ask again, IF he was wanting to just expose corruption, how come he sits on the majority of his info??? Probably waiting fot the movie deal....Im sure M.Moore is working on that one as i type...
You are making stuff up Ron.
No he isn't a spy. He is a journalist. He even coined the phrase "scientific journalism." Reporting the actions of governments, corporations, and those in positions of power etc. by publishing the actual documents that the news is based on. It is called primary original sources. It is what we should always rely on when reporting the news and recording history for the generations to come.
He fears extradition because the US has lost its way, its moral compass. Our government would immorally, unethically, and illegally more than likely subject him to torture and he would not receive a fair trial in the kangaroo court of Military Justice. They are desperately trying to invent laws to try him under. How unbelievably corrupt is that? We are going to detain you indefinately without charge, and then invent laws that we can try you under. The US has gone off the cliff in terms of crime and corruption, and hiding these crimes and corruption under the illusion and the lie of State Secrets. Just look at the way our government is treating PFC Manning. He did nothing wrong but release the truth of crimes and corruption committed by our Military. He is a man of high moral and ethical standing and conscience. The US is not upset about their crimes and corruption. What they are upset about is the fact that they got caught. Now they want to shoot the one who told the truth. They want to kill the messengers.
I think how people are responding to this PFC Manning and JA/Wikileaks story, has a great deal to say about your personal conscience, motives, and moral and ethics. I'm truly appalled by the response of those who do not see the truth of the matter and are screaming for vengeance against PFC Manning and JA/Wikileaks. They did nothing wrong but expose the truth. You really have to look inside your soul and ask who you really are and why you are responding the way you are. Something is seriously wrong with your moral and ethical judgement (your compass) when you are screaming for vengeance against those who expose and tell the truth.
We have absolutely lost our way. Now we have citizens crying in support of holding Secrets that hide our crime and corruption as a nation. Where are your morals and ethics? Is your moral compass shattered too? We no longer seem to have a moral or ethical compass. Our moral, ethical, justice, and freedom standing in the World is shattered. And it only took 8 short years to thoroughly do it. And now the Obama administration continues the dereliction of duty to hold the true criminals to account.
Right is Wrong, and Wrong is Right. Up is down, and down is up.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 18, 2010 - 04:55pm PT
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Wait until the House of Cards DOES fold. We live in interesting times, to be sure.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Dec 18, 2010 - 07:34pm PT
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Werner wrote: "Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2010 - 06:30pm PT
Hmmmmmmm ???
There must be a root reason for wikileaks.
What really is their aim?
Just plain splattering documents onto the WWW web with no goal behind them doesn't strike me as what their real aim is for.
They have some kind of agenda?
I don't know where to though although I can guess or it's anyone guess?"
 Much like living ones life, I can't imagine asking these questions of you, and further still, is it possible to ask what one's "agenda" is after one dies?
In other words, and more plainly put, if we get the information, if we try to take in the information with histories included, maybe there will be an agenda that could not ever be stated before hand.
I'm willing to allow history to be the judge.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 20, 2010 - 10:43am PT
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Tom,
This deserves to be seen. Thanks for providing the link.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 20, 2010 - 11:32am PT
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Some things do need to remain secret for security purposes, defense etc., so long as you are not hiding crimes and corruption.
This is an amazing program just shown on the History Channel, called "The President's Book of Secrets." Done under the idea and the possibility of there being such a book in deference to the movie "National Treasure: Book of Secrets." Fun to think about.
This really is an amazing program. Many well known politicians and insiders are interviewed and allowed to speak there minds, but then only so far. They touch on all topics it seems. Pretty amazing.
My chin hit the floor considering all the things they were talking about and alluding to in this program. I know about all these conspiracies, but it amazed me that so many and all in one program would be discussed and then openly discussed. Sure they give the party line in the end, but at least they were willing to even consider it, if only for a moment.
This program is definitely worth watching. I got the sinking feeling while watching, that I could never do what they are doing. The deep dark secrets that they hold onto and then indefinately. I couldn't ever do it, nor would I want to.
What none of them seem to consider, is the fact that their deepest, darkest secrets are fully known by The Creator. You can not pull the wool over the eyes of GOD. One day it will all be revealed. It's not gonna be a good day for many.
Live a good honest life in faith. Let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay. Always tell the truth. We can keep secrets, but not to hide crime and corruption. Even GOD keeps secrets. The Good Book says so. Some things we just are not ready for.
Anyway definitely worth watching. Enjoy.
History Channel:
The President's Book of Secrets HD (1/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoJ2J2KgmE&feature=related
The President's Book of Secrets HD (2/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYb37lmT7MA&feature=related
The President's Book of Secrets HD (3/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j676SFI1ToY&feature=related
The President's Book of Secrets HD (4/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2mmhlhKruU&feature=related
The President's Book of Secrets HD (5/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLzd0aRrEG4&feature=related
The President's Book of Secrets HD (6/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaFJjrulCs&NR=1
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 20, 2010 - 11:45am PT
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Well, no fish tacos yet for me. I was going to make some yesterday, but then my dog expresed her anal glands in my car yesterday morning so my day was consumed with that. It's even lovelier than it sounds.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 20, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
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We need to watch governments as close as they watch us, to hold them to account. Actually, it will never be equivalent. The US Government continually oversteps the legal boundaries and turns our Constitution and Bill of Rights into a joke. It is absolutely shameful. It is much worse than George Orwell's 1984 predicted . . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4667064
Monitoring America: How the U.S. Sees You
Source: Washington Post
Nine years after the terrorist attacks of 2001, the United States is assembling a vast domestic intelligence apparatus to collect information about Americans, using the FBI, local police, state homeland security offices and military criminal investigators.
The system, by far the largest and most technologically sophisticated in the nation's history, collects, stores and analyzes information about thousands of U.S. citizens and residents, many of whom have not been accused of any wrongdoing.
The government's goal is to have every state and local law enforcement agency in the country feed information to Washington to buttress the work of the FBI, which is in charge of terrorism investigations in the United States.
Other democracies - Britain and Israel, to name two - are well acquainted with such domestic security measures. But for the United States, the sum of these new activities represents a new level of governmental scrutiny.
Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/20/politics/washingtonpost/main7167877.shtml
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 20, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
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NO.
I hadn't been privy to crimes within the government when I was in the US Army. Nor was I really very politically aware then. Then I was just starting to come to realize the politics of it all. Did I see unethical behavior by others? Sure. You can in all professions. People are people. People do stupid stuff and act immorally at times. You have to pick your battles. It wasn't worth the hassle I was sure to face. I was in for just a short 2 years. But it left a lasting impression. I won't forget. On the outside I can do so much more, and I do.
But as a born and raised US citizen, who has served in the US Army during peace time, now very politically aware and active, and as an educated science HS teacher, I now know that crimes and corruption do occur. Unethical things do occur. I'm now very aware. I vote accordingly, and I am a political activist for just and right causes. I'm involved now as much as I can be.
Time to stand up and be counted.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Dec 20, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
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Klimmer
“All for the good of Christianity”
Don’t follow the money, follow “Who/Whom” that are the god loving Christians in office that create them. What’s the slogan ‘God bless America” you are part of them, you support the system, think you can change anything.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 20, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
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Whether you do or don't change the system you should always try.
How can we face our children?
"Well, Daddy how come you didn't try to change the World for the better? How come you didn't tell them they were doing wrong?"
Edit:
Do you really think everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian?
Hardly.
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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Dec 20, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
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Not reading the posts herein, but fresh from the other blogs on the good and bad of WikiLeaks, I suggest that Bradley Manning and Julian Assange have achieved their position in international history as the greatest leaders and heroes of the century for the eternal human quest to make government accountable to the people for whom the government claims to act and spend the people's money.
The younger generation of inherently computer and internet savvy humans are rightfully laughing themselves to tears at the mental dinosaurs of the US, Russian, Chinese, other power and secrecy-based governments, and the mental midgets who still support them.
If it is done in the name of the people, with the people's money, fools think it can be kept secret after the invention of the internet. Power-damaged minds in government will soon not be successful in the mating and breeding process as the humans learn more knowledge, perhaps similar to the transition between the club-swinging Neanderthals and the new guys who could think with their brains.
Keep on uploading and downloading what the comical government dolts are doing in our name with our money. Their rage illuminates their ignorance.
Respectfully, DougBuchanan.com
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 20, 2010 - 08:34pm PT
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A FatTrad may not be so easily unplugged, according to the other thread.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Dec 20, 2010 - 10:00pm PT
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Doug B. - FCC & Obama want to seize control/censorship authority on the inernet -
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/14/silencing-voices-of-internet-dissent/
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) apparently is headed for a 3-2 party-line vote to regulate the Internet on Dec. 21, which Commissioner Robert M. McDowell (a stalwart free-market champion who opposes the regulations) points out is the darkest day of the year. In doing so, the FCC is putting the new Congress to a key first test of whether it can muster the will to overturn the Obama administration's backdoor efforts to push a far-left agenda through regulation.
Topic may have already been covered but thought this FCC note is relevant to this discussion.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Dec 20, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
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ah--so. now it's starting to make sense. an excuse to crack down on internet freedom.
klimmer, get your sorry ass into the real world.
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