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WBraun
climber
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Apr 28, 2015 - 07:38pm PT
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Two monks were arguing about a flag.
One said, "The flag is moving."
The other said, "The wind is moving."
The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by.
He told them, "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 29, 2015 - 01:53am PT
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Jan: I'm curious about your experience in the deprivation tanks. I've read that almost everyone begins "hallucinating" a few hours after being introduced to one. Of course one person's hallucination is another one's unconscious imagery. I'm wondering if you or anyone you knew ever got past the imagery, and if so what was the next stage? I already had a lot of experience with meditation at that point as well as a far amount of acid and (I suspect) that's why I didn't hallucinate at all or see any visual imagery other than the kinds of things you might normally 'see' when you close your eyes. I found I really liked the tanks and have spent entire days / nights in them. They tend to quickly bring you face-to-face with amplified physical / emotional distractions on one hand and frees you up from them quite quickly on the other. Very much a disembodied experience in many respects and in an odd resonating way.
Sort of like jumping out of a plane, I recommend everyone do it at least once.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
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your meditative zombie state.
Tell us about this state, Healyje.
We of course take it that you are making these evaluations based on .... your own experience. What else could it be?
This zombie silliness, along with other howlers you project onto others per your meditation experience (ascribing your experiences, or your speculations about other's experiences), is the best evidence that a teacher is indicated to sort you out on this material. Because whatever your thinking it is, zombie states or otherwise it ain't. It all ooze tumbling out of your own brainpan - We can easily see why.
JL
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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healeyje, thanks.
Now the question I have is did you mostly spend your time in those tanks with discursive thinking (you indicate that you at least did some of that) or just floating? If not discursive thinking, then something that sounds like Largo's no -thing state? What about falling asleep?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I found I really liked the tanks and have spent entire days / nights in them. They tend to quickly bring you face-to-face with amplified physical / emotional distractions on one hand and frees you up from them quite quickly on the other.
I spent 90 days in solitary confinement in a naval brig for selling lsd on base. Better than an UHD. Not talking to anyone for 3mos pretty much set me for dealing with every crisis since..
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Not talking to anyone for 3mos pretty much set me for dealing with every crisis since..
Much respect, BB. I wish more people would recognize the value of not talking. Or writing.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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May 2, 2015 - 07:13am PT
Not talking to anyone for 3mos pretty much set me for dealing with every crisis since..
-BB
Much respect, BB. I wish more people would recognize the value of not talking. Or writing.
-MH2
Doesn't matter if this was directed at me or not...I've earned it. There's no denying I've stuck my foot in it on all fronts this weekend. At home and on this site.
Point taken...
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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I'm sure you recognize the value, Bushman. There is no need to be silent. In my opinion you make what you say here count for something.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^For SURE. Compared to my spews are mostly like a happy baboon squirt'in all over the place
Namaste
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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That was solitaire. Then I got my own room in population for 9mo. My neighbor was a dungeons&dragons freak, that time was breeze. Wish I could have recorded those conversations.
Edit: btw, I never actually sold any. I had just brought it on base in the trunk of my car (which had a taillight out) for the petty officer in charge of my shop. Hey I was only 18 :-( I was discharged as a felon, have never been able to vote, posses a gun, or be bonded which disqualifies me from holding a contractors lic. Guess I deserved it
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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your meditative zombie state.
It was Gill who said that, not Healyje.
He said, and I'm not taking a side here, because I don't really care about this question, the following:
But there will come a day when you make the leap of faith and declare that this "no physical extent" is the no-thing you experience - the open awareness field - in your meditative zombie state.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Funny though, to think how the response might have been parsed if he'd had his act together enough to know who he was responding to.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Jammer: Does this somehow not apparently exonerate us all from morality? I personally cant see any other point to this way of thinking.
“Not” . . . “exonerate” . . . . Huh??
I think you’re saying that my notion apparently DOES exonerate us all from morality.
Exoneration seems to imply that people are "guilty" of being immoral. That idea cuts a broad swath, for if everyone is guilty, then no one is guilty . . . No?
I think you’re really asking whether or not there is such a thing as morality. In a conventional sense (legally, in terms or cultural practices and values), then sure, there is morality. But if you ask whether or not there is morality OUTSIDE of those confines, then no.
How could there be appropriate, inappropriate, right, wrong, moral, and immoral outside of any cultural system? How could you come to such a thing?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Because whatever your thinking it is, zombie states or otherwise it ain't. It all ooze tumbling out of your own brainpan - We can easily see why
I feel badly about setting the stage for this denigration of Joe's comments.
Zombie is a bit of a stretch, although to the non-meditative world it looks a little like it. Maybe my choice of the word reflects the attention devoted to this fascinating thread.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Two monks were arguing about a flag.
One said, "The flag is moving."
The other said, "The wind is moving."
The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by.
He told them, "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."
Werner, thanks for sharing. Hard to see when we get wrapped up in our own persepctive.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Yep. They are all right. Did they run it past 5 other patriarchs to get opinion #6?
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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You cannot know Mind without knowing Un-Mind.
Like the attempt to see the Light without knowing Darkness. Foolhardy noobishness.
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WBraun
climber
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DMT -- " It will move whether you have a mind or not."
Your wild guesses from your agitated mind shows why you're simply not even ready for this subject matter period.
Also shows why you're having so much trouble understanding Largo.
If you'll quiet your run a way mind for just a short period long enough you'll come to the full real realization of the mind .......
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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The flag is not the point.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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A pointless point.
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