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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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You gentlemen do realize that California and the southwest have suffered many specie and civilization ending mega droughts over the last twenty thousand years, don't you? A little dryspell is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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We are gunna die!.. unfortunately much faster than necessary. Civilization may or may not survive another 100 years or so but if it doesn't it could have.
The next civilization will probably learn something from all of this.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Rick, definitely in the southwest, but name a civilization in the Sierra Nevada that ended due to a "mega drought" in the last twenty thousand years. Seriously, I know a bit about indigenous civilizations in the southwest, but not much about those in CA.
The issue was "it is dry," in response to which the Chaff offered his childhood memories and demonstrated his inability to process simple information presented in graphical form.
Thanks for the refresher Bruce. Keep up the good work.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Hey Rick, you were right!
Although you lied because the President never PROMISED to lower the sea level
HE DID!
or, more accurately, he was right, the sea level HAS GONE DOWN AS HE SAID!
Thanks for pointing this out Rick!
Obama declared in a June 8, 2008 speech, that his presidency will be “the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.” Obama’s prognostication occurred during his victory speech in St. Paul for the Democratic Party nomination.
Climate Depot can now announce it is official. Earlier this month, the European Space Agency’s Envisat monitoring, global sea level revealed a “two year long decline [in sea level] was continuing, at a rate of 5mm per year.”
In August 2011, NASA announced that global sea level was dropping and was “a quarter of an inch lower than last summer.” See: NASA: ‘Global sea level this summer is a quarter of an inch lower than last summer’
The global drop in sea level followed NASA’s announcement that sea level around the U.S. was declining in February 2011.
Most surprising, despite the fact that Obama said he would only “slow” the rise of the oceans, his presidency has presided over what some scientists are terming an “historic decline” in global sea levels. Obama appears to have underestimated his own powers to alter sea level.
Even more impressive for President Obama is the fact that just six months into his presidency, sea level started its historic reversal. In July 2009, sea level was already showing a “slowdown and was “still flattening.” See: Sea Level Rise: An Update Shows a Slowdown & See: Global Sea Level Updated at UC – still flattening’
President Obama’s success in lowering sea level has not gone unnoticed. The skeptical website Real Science, made sarcastic note of Obama’s “healing of the climate” and his sea level accomplishment on June 3, 2011.
“No hurricanes have struck the US since Obama became president, temperatures and sea level have dropped, and we have had record snow,” Real Science noted. “Reservoirs are filling up – and all of the damage [President George W.] Bush did to the climate has been healed. Obama should declare ‘mission accomplished’ and take credit!” Real Science concluded.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2011/09/21/promise-kept-planet-healer-obama-calls-it-in-2008-he-declared-his-presidency-would-result-in-the-rise-of-the-oceans-beginning-to-slow-and-by-2011-sea-level-drops/[/quote]
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Christ almighty ,if you wish. Look up Spirit Cave man, lookup Folsom, lookup Clovis, and of course you know of the denizens of Chaco canyon. All cultures that had to move on or perish. But their forays into the Sierra were few and far between. The Paiute, Miwok, and others have frequented the mountains there in more recent times.
Oh come on Norton-that is what he implied
Bruce you continue to entertain. At present the stack of papers is more like 16" and the siding closer to 20'
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Clovis, Folsom, and Chaco are used to describe cultural periods defined by technologies... not individual civilizations... and the original sites were in New Mexico. Try again?
haha, Chaff can't admit the fact that he was WRONG about the actual data... so he reverts to attacking the models he knows NOTHING about.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oh come on Norton-that is what he implied
oh come on Rick, even a high school graduate knows the difference between the two, you don't?
but regardless, the President was correct, the sea level has fallen
and that's all that matters right?
the fact that you tried and lied to make the President out to be a liar, and then it turns out that he told the truth all along, and it was you who lied about the "promise"
poetic justice
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Christ almighty i am well aware that Chaco is in New Mexico. And was Christ around to see Folsom or Clovis, i don't think so. What do you know of the Chumash? How old, what locations, the extent of their range?
Pretty clear cut graphs Chief. How can these guys fail to see it? Just deadenders i'm afraid.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Did the Chumash civilization end due to a mega drought?
I don't think there is a single person that claims any model can predict the future with absolute accuracy... but there is at least one person on here who clearly doesn't know how to read graphs.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Well Christ if they can't predict the future with any accuracy why are they worshipped as evidence?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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hmmm, did I say "any accuracy" or "absolute accuracy?"
No sane person "worships" computer models nor do they consider them "evidence."
No wonder you fellas are so confused about everything.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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mind numbingly clever, really.
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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Well Christ if they can't predict the future with any accuracy why are they worshipped as evidence?
Please look up the definition of science and then get back to me.
Predicting the future? Worshipping?
Admit it. You know nothing of the way that science as a method actually works.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Well Christ if they can't predict the future with any accuracy why are they worshipped as evidence?
The better question is why do we spend time arguing the steaming piles of crap you post on here?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Precisely. Modern Science has incorporated a checks and balances process that is worthless. Totally bias and self-serving. It reviews iternally maintaining the notion that it can only do so due to it's unmatched elite intellectual ability. 97% consensus. Infallible. Manifesting itself and telling the world it knows all. Perfect. Unless you are one of the "Elitist" DR's, you are worthless in thinking and contributing. You know nothing and are an idiot. You must follow the "Dr's guidance. The "DR" knows.
Truly amazing how history does repeat itself. The Roman Catholic Church had the exact same process and philosophy for well over a 1000 years. Still does as a matter of fact.
Absolutely NO difference.
This is where you go very wrong Chief. You seem to confuse the observation that some people treat it the same and are "true believers" with the actual fact that science was designed as well as possible as a system to avoid this very pitfall. It has been and continues to be the best system for combating "belief" as the fundamental unit of acceptable information. It's not perfect but it is much better than you seem to think.
Our current civilization would be back around the level of the 1700's without this system. In every aspect of your life you are nearly completely surrounded by the results of the scientific method. From the paint's and dyes in everything you own, to the car you drive and all it's components to the water you drink and the food you eat. The implements of Modern society are built on one thing. Good science. It is remarkable that those with no knowledge of it have such easy access to it they take it for granted when they go to walmart or post on supertopo. The ammount of physics applied in posting on this thread would take multiple PhDs just to understand well.
The things discovered and then applied are complex and difficult to obtain. The knowledge accumulated is immense. It cannot be done the way you suggest science works.
DR = PRIEST
You do not understand science. You simply beieve. You are the one guilty of what you accuse "science" of. Such a common pattern in people who slander.
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WBraun
climber
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Our current civilization would be back around the level of the 1700's
Our current civilization is STILL in the cave man mode.
Stupid modern scientists have turned civilization backwards in the last few hundred years.
Do to being under the strict clutches of the illusionary energy.
Stupid simpletons only believe technology is what drives civilizations.
This one came from above the fence ........
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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In a way you are right Werner. People don't seem to have changed just the tools they have at hand.
It gives us both more power to destroy and more power to fix or heal. But the will and wisdom to make the right choices.. not so much.
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WBraun
climber
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must try to see the world from Werner perspective
Wrong and completely wrong.
You need to see it from truth itself.
Not from what the Chief says, not from what the scientist says, and not from what I say ......
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Long before we ever have the power to destroy this beautiful Earth we will kill each other in the struggle for supremacy of ideology. World war 111 could be right around the corner and we still believe we have the luxury for our science to use a significant portion of the fruits of the citizens labors to create toy models of reality to attempt to scare the people into compliance with one of ideologies that is the root of the problem.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I doubt we will ever have the ability to destoy the earth. Death Star technology seems a long way off. I don't even think we have the technology to erase the human race. Could be wrong about that. But humans are a scrappy and survival prone species.
We do currently have the ability to make the world very difficult for 8 Billion people to live on it. We are rapidly changing the climate and ecosystems modern civilization is built on an unintentional but necessarily symbiotic relationship with. When it comes to squandering of resources the banking system already ate up a couple hundred trillion recently. SO I'm not so worried about a few trillion spent on the research and construction work needed to determine what needs doing and doing it.
At least the few trillion spent on that would actually go to a lot more people for the work they do. Scientists, engineers, Construction workers, Tool, instrument and equipment manufacturers, Transportation and such. I'm not quite so big on hedge fund managers needs.
Honest question here. I am confused about one thing Rick. What ideology do you think climate science is the tool of and being used to scare us into adopting or compliance with?
The evidence I have seen is that the biggest and most wealthy interests in the history of the world such as oil and banking companies are the ones directly contributing millions of dollars to the misinformation campaign against the AGW body of knowledge.
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