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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Apr 20, 2015 - 03:39pm PT
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Personally I don't feel guilt at having a computer (or any barometer used to measure such things ) or in general being from an economically successful country . Feeling guilt or becoming hypercritical over these types of things is unproductive and even counterproductive-- and amounts to a sort of disease of the modern mind. I have noticed that many people who do feel guilty in this way a) tend to have more "things" and are always upgrading b) rarely do anything about downsizing from a beamer to a Prius.
Socioeconomic,political, and historical factors are far too complex to conclude that one must feel bad about where one resides on the scale of living-- however those things are computed and compared in today's context.
People like to feel guilty as almost a fetish-- but rarely ever do anything substantive about whatever makes them feel that way--- except lip service, and from time to time vote for liars and con artists who promise to assuage their guilt for the price of said vote.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Apr 20, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
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If a phenomenon has no mass, is there any inherent properties to the thing itself that in turn creates an effect on external material reality? If so, WHAT are those inherent qualities? If we say that the inherent quality is "spin," what is spinning, from what does spin emerge, what sustains said spin and why is it - whatever "it" is - spinning (JL)
You probably should consult with your prodigies about "spin." It may not be quite what you're familiar with when you play with your top.
Your attempt to get to the bottom of things is admirable. But maybe humans are not capable yet of making this intellectual journey since we can only conceptualize from observations in the macro world, viz., "what is spinning?"
Jake still hasn't learned simple algebra . . . It's a weary task I've chosen . . .
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 20, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
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Ward: Personally I don't feel guilt at having a computer (or any barometer used to measure such things ) or in general being from an economically successful country.
Agreed. I think you can argue that guilt makes absolutely no sense when you’ve had no real hand in the determination of where, when, and under what conditions “your life” has evolved. It is karma, in a manner of speaking.
If one feels gratitude, to whom should it be sent?
“Bewilderment” is more likely the appropriate feeling to have.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Apr 20, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
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In the old days one could communicate with anyone in the universe thru the proper channels
whatddaya mean old days!?!
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Apr 20, 2015 - 05:22pm PT
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If one feels gratitude, to whom should it be sent?
Well the other night I was watching an excellent documentary on Dday ,and then one on Iwa Jima. I couldn't help but feeling some deep gratitude for the soldiers that fought and died there and in other battles.
Just a few months prior to that hell on Earth these guys were just grocery clerks, car mechanics, farm boys, and high school students.
When I was growing up I wasn't forced to goose step around saying "heil" to someone like Hitler. That is very important to me.
So yes I feel gratitude. And I've just identified to whom I feel that gratitude.
So if you're looking for someone to send a little gratitude to --you can't beat a little guy who was scared to death that day the big doors opened.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 20, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
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500 Year Old Map Was Discovered That Shatters The “Official” History Of The Planet
Right off the bat, one of the most compelling facts about the map is that it includes a continent that our history books tell us was not discovered until 1818.
Secondly, the map depicts what is known as “Queen Maud Land,” a 2.7 million-square-kilometer (1 million sq mi) region of Antarctica as it looked millions of years ago.
This region and other regions shown on the map are thought to have been covered completely in ice, but the map tells a different story.
It shows this area as ice free, which suggests that these areas passed through a long ice-free period
which might not have come to an end until approximately six thousand years ago, which again, totally goes against what is taught and currently believed.
Today, geological evidence has confirmed that this area could not have been ice-free until about 4000 BC.
Official science has been saying all along that the ice-cap which covers the Antarctic is millions of years old.
The Piri Reis map shows that the northern part of that continent has been mapped before the ice did cover it.
This means that it was mapped a million years ago, but that’s impossible, since mankind did not exist at that time.
Quite the conundrum isn’t it?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 20, 2015 - 11:06pm PT
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If we say that the inherent quality is "mass," what has mass, from what does mass emerge, what sustains said mass and why does it - whatever "it" is - have mass? Fixed that for you...
[ P.S.: Mass is an inherent quality, not 'thing' - think m = E/c2 and gluons + quarks and you'll find that 'mass' and 'spin' are not so different with regards to the kind of thinking Largo is doing.
P.P.S. Largo, ask your rideshare buddies to account for the 'mass' of a proton... ]
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Apr 22, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
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Those particles are nice and Largo seems to have a firm grasp of them, but what about time? Is time continuous or discrete? In my studies I have always assumed continuity as a result of an infinite process of dividing time intervals into smaller and smaller bits. Chronons and Planck Time are competing concepts:
"A prominent model was introduced by Piero Caldirola in 1980. In Caldirola's model, one chronon corresponds to about 6.27×10−24
seconds for an electron.[4] This is much longer than the Planck time, which is only about 5.39×10-44
seconds. The Planck time is a theoretical lower-bound on the length of time that could exist between two connected events, but it is not a quantization of time itself since there is no requirement that the time between two events be separated by a discrete number of Planck times. For example, ordered pairs of events (A, B) and (B, C) could each be separated by slightly more than 1 Planck time: this would produce a measurement limit of 1 Planck time between A and B or B and C, but a limit of 3 Planck times between A and C.[citation needed] Additionally, the Planck time is a universal quantization of time itself, whereas the chronon is a quantization of the evolution in a system along its world line. Consequently, the value of the chronon, like other quantized observables in quantum mechanics, is a function of the system under consideration, particularly its boundary conditions." (Wiki)
And then there is the subjective experience of the passage of time which is related to some sort of vibrating filaments(?) in the brain.
Once again, the question posed back some pages, Can the past be altered?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 22, 2015 - 10:18pm PT
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Can the past be altered?
Everyone already knows it's not possible by any mortal whatsoever .....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 22, 2015 - 10:35pm PT
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Those particles are nice and Largo seems to have a firm grasp of them
I would disagree given his [resolute] conception of 'mass' as a thing versus a property / attribute. This is problematic given the mass of a proton can't be accounted for by the masses of its constituent quarks alone which leaves gluons somehow 'providing' the remaining mass. And, as his own ride-share argument points out, bosons have no mass, so where does this 'thing' he calls 'mass' come from? Not from quarks and not the sum of the masses of its quarks and gluons - there is no physical thing that is 'mass'. In other words, particles 'have' mass in the same way they 'have' spin. In fact, the quarks don't entirely account for a proton's spin either.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 07:26am PT
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But!!!!
You have no clue to the source of mass ......
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 23, 2015 - 10:26am PT
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The Higgs field confers mass to the W, Z and Higgs bosons through spontaneous symmetry breaking.
Just sayin...
There is no 'source' of mass, just as there is no 'source' of a relationship between two people. It's a property that comes about through an interaction between a particle and a field.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 10:31am PT
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Bullsh!t ^^^^^ everything has a source .....
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 23, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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Someday, we may well discover the Nutter Butter field that confers Loudness to Germions.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 11:48am PT
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Nutter Butter field that confers Loudness to Germions
If I may. It seems more likely people often feel that persistence indicates a strong character, something to be desired. Persistence when faced with resistance to one's efforts only indicates truly strong character, or so it can be seen.
everything has a source
"Everything" is a reversion to an absolute. The word can be used as a statement of experience only when one has actually looked at ALL THINGS. And every one of those things was found never to appear without being associated with some other entity or event. Absolutes carry with them a burden of proof beyond measure.
Failing satisfaction of that burden, statements become unsubstantiated opinion.
That too can be OK, as long as we are clear as to what they really are.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
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"Everything" is a reversion to an absolute.
The word can be used as a statement of experience only when one has actually looked at ALL THINGS.
And every one of those things was found never to appear without being associated with some other entity or event.
Absolutes carry with them a burden of proof beyond measure.
Yep you said perfectly as Largo has repeatedly said also "Beyond Measure"
Yet modern science remains in the deep shackled trench of measurement.
And every one of those things was found never to appear without being associated with some other entity or event.
Yes, to your limited defective material instruments it only appears that way.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
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^^
Can I have bread with that word salad?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Apr 23, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
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Not to be a measurement junkie, but I would like to see a YouTube of Big Brown tossing back some Hg. No need to film the Cu extrusion stage - an after-the-fact still would suffice.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 23, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
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Bullsh!t ^^^^^ everything has a source .....
But what about nonthings, do they have a source?
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