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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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And God said: let their be dog food, then their was.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nifty Youtube video explaining how Arctic warming affects the Jet Stream bringing weather to us all. Dr. Jennifer Francis (Rutgers U) is a well-known Arctic climate researcher.
Yeah, the jet-stream brings "weather", but so what? This warming Arctic hasn't effected the West Coast of US in any demonstrable fashion.
It's just cyclical weather. Nothing more!
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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The counter argument to increasing weather disasters is that people are living everywhere now and random storms have a much better chance of wrecking houses simply because there are structures in the way where previously only empty land existed.
It's pretty easy to show with some simple searches that extreme storms are more numerous and larger.
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1674
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I'm thinking that there's a huge difference between weather and climate.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
Isn't this group, by their very definition, looking in one direction, Ed? C'mon!
They will, of course, dispute Astro-physics as a source of 'change'. These IPCC people come off as whores for more grants and work.
But I know you'll disagree. Just my $.02
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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so what's your point?
if you'd like to throw out everything that disagrees with your point of view... fine
why discuss it then?
Is that for me or Rick?
I guess my response would be that all the models have been incorrect. And we want to base political policy on that?
It looks like these models are wrong to one degree or another.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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We must retrieve Bruce from that dark abyss of CAGW before the next 100 year flood sweeps him off the plain in 8 years or less.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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well you are wrong
and what should we base policy on? what the Oil Companies want?
Policy should be based on energy-independence, from our Saudi masters. Then we can talk about silly CO2 emissions and solar-flares.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Yeah, the jet-stream brings "weather", but so what? This warming Arctic hasn't effected the West Coast of US in any demonstrable fashion.
The video was too long for you?
7:11
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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This warming Arctic hasn't effected the West Coast of US in any demonstrable fashion.
Absolute 100% bullsh#t. You know nothing imbecile.
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WBraun
climber
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An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming
Those guys actually believe this total nonsense?
There's nothing Evangelical about it at all.
Complete total materialism cloaked in the semantics of so called Evangelicalism.
In a nutshell, in street language ..... stooppid .......
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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as for the models being "wrong," how do you figure that out, blue?
Ed, Im not a brilliant scientist, but I am a professional troubleshooter (in electronics). I solve problems for a living, some easy, and some much more complex.
I do look at things from a logical standpoint based on measurable facts, and data. Real data, that I can measure in real-time.
As for models? That is totally unpredictable, especially in terms of something so dynamic as weather! There are too many factors to harness. Sh#t is way too dynamic (Wind, sun, water-temps). You cannot model that.
You can try, but don't tell me it's reliable.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Bluey, you clearly know nothing about modern day weather forecasting and how computer modeling revolutionized it into the phenomenal abilities it possesses today.
Maybe a week or 2 out, but no further. Impossible to get accurate.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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The last sentence Ed- The variations over the long term remains an area open to research. This is a good start for the research direction after final abandonment of climate modeling based on the false premise of overwhelming anthropogenic forcing. This day will be relatively near in the future, surely in 4 years or less.
Bruce-whats wrong with questioning all and thinking for yourself? That is what they are saying in a nutshell. Now let's extricate you from that dark abyss. You can do it, chimney up those slippery walls, the light beckons to you just above.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Your knowledge of computer modeling is zero. You form an opinion based on squat.
True, yet also untrue. Models cannot predict the unpredictable. The unforeseen.
I think you miss my point. You have to feed a model data, but do you really know what that data is in the future? Based solely on past climates?
Really? It's speculation at best.
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WBraun
climber
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Heh heh heh
You got em Bluey.
Bruce don't know sh!t either.
He just tries to sound smart but is not.
A squirrel and the tree it lives in knows more about what is going to happen in the future weather then either the computer or the mental speculators like Bruce and the dog ......
I work both sides of the fence.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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These people that say that the warming has plateaued are stupid. You can't have accelerating polar melting without warming. The process is dynamic and feedbacks will skew what we think of as a stupid simple warming. It takes energy to melt ice, that's where some of the extra heat is going. Much of it is going into heating the oceans. Melting ice also cools the oceans - but once the ice is gone - look out. To expect the planet to just warm up without temporary feedbacks to cool it is stupid. So many of you skeptics don't get the most basic stuff. Consider the cooling effect (slowing the acceleration of warming) that aerosols in the northern hemisphere have, while the Southern Oceans continue to heat at a higher rate.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=polar-melting-is-accelera
This guy below plays heavily in Rick's last link above;
Climate Misinformer: Christopher Monckton
Christopher Monckton is a British consultant, policy adviser, writer, columnist, and hereditary peer. While not formally trained in science, Monckton is one of the most cited and widely published climate skeptics, having even been invited to testify to the U.S. Senate and Congress on several occasions.
For a comprehensive rebuttal of many of Christopher Monckton's arguments, check out this presentation by Professor John Abraham. http://www.stthomas.edu/engineering/jpabraham/ Abraham has compiled many examples where Monckton misrepresents the very scientists whose work he cites. Check out this PDF of Monckton quotes versus the scientists who in their own words explain how Monckton misrepresents their research.
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