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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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"The solution is a one state democratic union where all citizens of widest diversity are alloted the same right to peace, justice, freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Where all citizens are emboldened by the responsibility of electing the most suitable representative. Where collaboration not conflict is the norm. Where all children can grow up to be the best they can be no matter who they pray goodnight to."
sounds like israel with its 1.4 million arabs, including muslims, christians, and druze
the egypt solution won't work, either, because egypt would love to have gaza but doesn't want the palestinians for the same reasons nobody else wanted them (only jordan accepted them) when they fled israel
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Philo, before Israel occupied Gaza it was adminstered by Egypt. Gaza would become Egyption territory again. No one would be be expelled.
I don't believe that Palestinians or any other people are unable to govern themselves, but Gaza is not viable as a country by istself and is too isolated from the West Bank for the two to be part of fuctional unified country.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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True about the vast separation between Gaza and the West Bank making Statehood virtually impossible.
But not about Arab opinion towards the Palestinians. Before the Naqba drove the Palestinians into a Diaspora they were the learned peoples of the Arab world. Highly educated highly regarded doctors, engineers, lawyers, mathematicians, poets and artists. The other Arab countries CAN NOT take them all. The Palestinians are not considered undesirables. On the contrary Diaspora Palestinians have been tremendously successful and beneficial in countries all around the world. The other Arab countries CAN NOT take them all. Not because they will not help. But because any such allowance will lend insurmountable weight to Israel's intention to expel and annex the whole land.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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"the egypt solution won't work, either, because egypt would love to have gaza but doesn't want the palestinians for the same reasons nobody else wanted them (only jordan accepted them) when they fled israel."
And then Jordan pushed them into Lebannon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
More Palestinians died in Black September then in any conflict with the Israelis, but that's overlooked becasue they are killed by other moslems.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Or maybe Gaza could temporaily become a Egyption protectorate?
After reading more about Gaza one thing is clear to me. The Israeli economic blockade has only empowered Hamas by giving them control of the black market. They make money by controling the smuggling tunnels.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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"Israel's intention to expel and annex the whole land"
i think you have this backwards...it's hamas and hezbollah (as well as syria and iran) who have the "intention" to expel the "jewish vermin" from israel
i bet if you ask the palestinians in the west bank if they want to join with palestinians in gaza, most would say "NO!"
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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I agree that Gaza/WB could work, althought it would not be as easy as Gaza/Egypt. For Gaza/WB to work, there would need to be a lot more cooperation between the Gaza/WB and Israel: an air and ground transportation corridor over Israel and sharing of resources such as water and power.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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"The Palestinians are not considered undesirables. On the contrary Diaspora Palestinians have been tremendously successful and beneficial in countries all around the world."
I should have clarified... it was the PLO, not the Palestinian people, that Jordan (and later Lebanon) had a problem with.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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fattrad, the ecomomic blockade is more of a factor then the jihad. The economic blockade was intended to "punish" Hamas but it has just made them stronger.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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And exactly how would people living on the brink of the stone age ever dislodge the 4th mightiest military on the planet? How will starving freezing refugees of Palestine ever drive the children of Israel in to the sea? Don't you see the absurdity it that assertion. HOW WILL THEY DO IT? They may hope and pray for it but how would they ever have a chance to accomplish it? It is a shame that you have been falsely taught that total destruction of Israel is the only outcome acceptable to Palestinians. It is tragic in fact because your ignorance of both the PA's and before them the PLO's publicly acknowledged "right of Israel to Exist" allows you to justify an utterly disproportionate blood bath based on an endlessly perpetrated myth of disinformation.
If you had bothered to invest the ten minutes it would have taken to watch the powerpoint about Israeli History X. You would have read the true intentions of the founders and leaders of Zionism and Israel in their own words. Then you might not have the gall and temerity to make such utterly uninformed and ridiculous statements claimed as fact.
You have allowed yourself to become a dittohead for Zionism and absolved yourself of any moral responsibility.
Here is a link to it for convenience;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1UEjgXfYdw
And here is a link to a 5 minute presentation.
Because Fattrad would have you believe that there were no Palestinians before they showed up to make life unpleasant for Jews. Here is one about the Palestinians before the Naqba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjEBQ_bE7uA&NR=1
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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So what was the point behind Hamas launching rockets at "the 4th mightiest military on the planet" again?
Perhaps Hamas' efforts should have been directed toward assisting the legions of "starving freezing refugees of Palestine" instead of launching rockets at Israel.
Hamas can find the funds for thousands of rockets, yet they turn their backs on their own starving people.
Hamas isn't generating any sympathy for their side.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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The point Chaz is resistance which unlike yourself is not futile.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Your *resistance* turned out not only to be futile, but worse, counterproductive to say the least.
Firing rockets that weren't aimed at military targets gave Israel all the cover they needed to kill as many Palestinians as they feel like.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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And all the money flows from misguided American foreign right to the burgeoning coffers of the IDF and ever expanding unsettlements.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Just like the Third Reich's retribution for the futility of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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So you're saying we need to abandon Jimmy Carter's Camp David Accords, Philo?
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Yes Chaz.
Don't you guys ever read climbing posts? I have some doozies going. Check them out. Maybe you wlll learn to hate less of me.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Cool!
I don't think our Government should be taking money from any American to give to another person for nothing, most especially a foriegner.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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“I hope for peace there as well: as do ALL OF US HERE,…”
Not true.
Two Minutes to Midnight
Powerslave, 1984
Kill for gain or shoot to maim, but we don't need a reason
The Golden Goose is on the loose and never out of season
Blackened pride still burns inside this shell of bloody treason
Here's my gun for a barrel of fun for the love of living death
The killer's breed or the demon's seed
The glamour, the fortune, the pain
Go to war again, blood is freedom's stain
But don't you pray for my soul anymore
2 minutes to midnight, the hands that threaten doom
2 minutes to midnight, to kill the unborn in the womb
The blind men shout let the creatures out, we'll show the unbelievers
The napalm screams of human flames, of a prime time Belsen feast...YEAH!
As the reasons for the carnage cut their meat and lick the gravy
We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies
The killer's breed or the demon's seed
The glamour, the fortune, the pain
Go to war again, blood is freedom's stain
But don't you pray for my soul anymore
2 minutes to midnight, the hands that threaten doom
2 minutes to midnight, to kill the unborn in the womb
The body bags and little rags of children torn in two
And the jellied brains of those who remain to put the finger right on you
As the madmen play on words and make us all dance to their song
To the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun
The killer's breed or the demon's seed
The glamour, the fortune, the pain
Go to war again, blood is freedom's stain
But don't you pray for my soul anymore
2 minutes to midnight, the hands that threaten doom
2 minutes to midnight, to kill the unborn in the womb
Midnight...midnight....it's all night
Midnight...midnight....all night!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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