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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 16, 2013 - 05:51am PT
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Nobody likes taxes - most of us feel we pay plenty of them already. But the fact is that without them, we can't have that which is essential to most of us - roads, parks, SS, medicare, police protection.....the list goes on. To anyone who wants universal healthcare, yet another tax is inevitable. One simply can't have unfunded mandates - it is unsustainable. You wanna play, you gotta pay. Can you imagine sitting around a poker table to play a game if no one was willing to put any money down. How long would that last?
Now, unfortunately, here is the sad truth to it all. Around the time this fiasco we call the ACA was coming into fruition - nobody who proposed a new tax would have stood a prayer's chance in hell of getting it through Congress. Not a Dem; not a GOP - in short not no one (excuse, please the double negative). Moreover, it would have would have been political suicide for anyone (including Obama) to propose, it so it did not get done. Instead, however, we conceived some half-assed scheme where everyone would be "mandated" to buy insurance - then we put the IRS in charge of it. Roberts, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, says its a tax. OK so be it. The hitch is that it is not usual form of tax we all know and recognize. It is also one which is very hard to enforce. It is not like SS or medicare where they simply deduct the amount from your wages. Neither is it like the various state and municipal taxes where it is tacked on at the register. Enforcement will be problematic at best and likely much worse.
Now what do you get for this mandated tax? Do you get to walk into a clinic somewhere and get services for say your toothache or your sinusitis. Do you get any antibiotics if you need them? Does anyone set your broken bone? Stitch up your laceration? Lance and drain your abscess? Prescribe meds for your high blood pressure? Hell no. So what do you get? Well, you get a f*#king insurance policy and all the bullshit that goes with it. You get to pay premiums. You get to pay co-pays. You get to meet deductibles. You get to find out the the doxycycline you need for your Lyme Disease is "not covered." Oh well.... You get to find out that the MRI you need for your intractable headaches is denied..........and so on and so forth. Best of all, the "tax" you pay - i.e. your monthly premiums - is helping to fund the corporate profits of the insurance company you elected (on the dysfunctional government website) instead of going directly to yours (and everyone else's) healthcare.
It is and was a crappy idea from the get go. Sad truth - likely none of the better ideas would have ever passed.
Hi Lois.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 19, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
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Obama's administration LIED about the jobs numbers to get re-elected.
Anyone really surprised?
Poor pathetic Republicans. No wonder they're always confused--they don't understand data or numbers.
Data extracted on: November 19, 2013 (3:53:44 PM)
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Series Id: LNS14000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
Curt
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 19, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
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"He has set a record for outright loud lies. Ive never seen worse. "
Name the lies.
If you can find them, tell us how in the world they are 'worse' than the previous POTUS.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 19, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
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Not really seeing any 'lies' there, Rongo, just politics. You know...the kind of politics that every POTUS engages in, including every one you've ever voted for. To your point, though....
Which one lead to tens of thousands of deaths, destruction of thousands of homes, disability to thousands of lives, and plunged this country into deeeeeeep deficit?
Care to revisit your 'never seen worse' blather?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 19, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
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C'mon, Ron...'never seen worse'.....
Really?
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Nov 19, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
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Curt, obviously didn't read the article or the multiple reports that have now surfaced about how the numbers were fabricated.
How is that view with your head up your a*#?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 19, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
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The wackjobs are gaining ground- now there are at least four who are privy to inside gov doings... Four wing nuts couldn't be Rong..er.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 19, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
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It just goes on and on too. You know this though you wont admit it.. This last time a public apology was issued because he was BUSTED by the entire public out there. And he lied within that apology.
Ill sign any petition for impeachment .
Wrong, Rong.
A few things: What "high crime or misdemeanor" has the President been convicted of?
You do know that the Constitution, that paper you love to piss upon, does not have a provision for impeachment by petition?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2013 - 09:47am PT
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Oregon score as of today. 400 new Gov hires. No new signups, -140,000 citizens with gov mandated health coverage cancellations of there chosen insurance, NO coverage for them of any sort, they are UNINSURED due to gov ineptitude.
http://news.yahoo.com/oregon-healthcare-exchange-website-never-worked-no-subscribers-015115508.html
"Oregon healthcare exchange website never worked, has no subscribers
Reuters
By Jonathan Kaminsky 12 hours ago
(Reuters) - Oregon, a state that fully embraced the Affordable Care Act, is enduring one of the rockiest rollouts of President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law, with an inoperative online exchange that has yet to enroll a single subscriber, requiring thousands to apply on paper instead.
Unlike most other states, Oregon set an ambitious course to make its insurance exchange, dubbed Cover Oregon, an "all-in-one" website for every individual seeking health coverage, including those who are eligible for Medicaid.
But instead of serving as a national model, Oregon's experience has emerged as a cautionary tale, inviting comparisons to technical glitches that have plagued other state-run portals and the federal government's website for those states lacking exchanges of their own.
Oregon's online exchange has remained inaccessible to the public, requiring the state to sign up applicants the old-fashioned way, using paper forms. This has made comparison shopping more difficult for consumers and severely slowed the enrollment process.
"Oregonians have questions," state Senate President Peter Courtney, a Democrat, said on Tuesday. "What went wrong with the rollout? How are they going to fix it? When are they going to get it right? Is the website contractor doing everything it can? Our people need to know."
Courtney urged state lawmakers to "ask the hard questions" of officials overseeing the state's healthcare exchange at a pair of legislative hearings on Wednesday.
Appearing at one of those hearings, Cover Oregon Executive Director Rocky King told a joint House-Senate committee that goals set for the state's exchange were overly ambitious given the short time afforded its designers.
"We took a four- or five-year project and tried to condense it into two, two-and-a-half years," King said. "We're not broken, it's just not done."
While he remains "laser focused" on getting the exchange fully functional, his staff is proceeding as if the website will remain offline through the open-enrollment period ending March 31, King said.
FILLING OUT FORMS
In the meantime, the state has resorted to urging would-be subscribers to fill out applications that are between nine and 19 pages long by hand, Cover Oregon spokesman Michael Cox said.
The program also has hired about 400 temporary workers to help process those applications before January 1, when the new plans are due to take effect, Cox said.
As part of that effort, staff members from his office are fanning out to hotel conference rooms and other venues across the state over the next week to help prospective enrollees complete the forms, he said.
Nearly 25,000 individuals and families have so far submitted hard-copy applications, Cox said, with nearly two-thirds of those applicants eligible for Medicaid, a federal-state healthcare plan for the needy.
But none of those applicants has actually been enrolled, with manual processing of the paperwork slowing the process dramatically.
Separately, about 70,000 residents have signed up for Medicaid by responding to letters sent by the state to more than 200,000 people deemed eligible for the program by virtue of their receiving food stamps, Cox said.
By comparison, Oregon's neighbor to the south, California - with a population 10 times larger - enrolled about 31,000 people in an Affordable Care Act plan last month, and added 29,000 in the first 12 days of November.
California has much farther to go, with an estimated 7.3 million adults and children lacking insurance in 2011, compared with 560,000 counted as uninsured that year in Oregon.
Jesse Ellis O'Brien, a healthcare advocate with the Oregon State Public Interest Research Group, which pushed for the exchange, said he is "surprised and frustrated" by its ongoing woes but hopeful that they will be resolved within the next month or two.
King stressed that while people cannot sign up for insurance online, the Cover Oregon website does allow them to browse information on available health plans.
A spokesman for Oregon Governor John Kitzhaber, a Democrat and medical doctor who supported the Affordable Care Act, did not immediately return messages seeking comment.
Greg Leo, chairman of Oregon's Republican Party and an avowed foe of the 2010 healthcare reform law, said its troubled rollout in Oregon underscores his view that patients would be better served by a system managed by the private sector.
"I don't take any joy in this," he said. "This creates a lot of harm for citizens in Oregon and nationally. It's a tragedy, and it further erodes people's confidence in government."
(Editing by Steve Gorman, Doina Chiacu and Sandra Maler)"
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 21, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
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Rong, why do you find it necessary to lie? Are your arguments so lame?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 21, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
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here is objective evidence as to what has happened to the cost of medical care, and how the ACA has altered it for all of us
Here is a chart showing how the care in hospitals has improved, in a very real way, by cutting the readmission rate following discharge:
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 21, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
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Hey Ken,, first,, there is not one lie in my post. Secondly,, you posting some SHYT graph in an attempt to dilute facts just doenst cut it.
Facts to a Republican: Something they heard somewhere that they happen to agree with.
Curt
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 21, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
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I dunno Rong, boy.
I just took at look at the Nevada site, and it was easy to navigate, and took me seconds to find the rates, which seemed cheap.
A 30 year-old can get a bronze plan for about $200 that gets guaranteed preventive care free, and guarantees protection against bankruptcy.
Sounds like a good deal, and seconds to navigate.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 21, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
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Ken,, TRY and COMPLETE the "navigation" and youll find out.
Well, DUH, I can't, because I don't live in NV!
But anyway, that was not what you said.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
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179% increases in premiums bubba.
Havent had insurance for five years now
So... 0 + 179 percent = 0.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
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Dave Kos said: "How did people shop for insurance before there was a government website? Y'all do understand, that we still buy insurance from ... insurance companies.
Right?
Why are all these folks suddenly so helpless when they don't have government help?"
Clearly not much of a reader eh Dave?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 21, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
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First, let's visit the standard Left shrieking points.
1) How many of you know someone who died in Hurricane Katrina? (Just thought I'd get that out of the way.)
2) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who was a valid registered voter and who was denied the chance to vote due to Voter ID laws?
3) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who was unable to afford birth control due to a lack of health insurance?
4) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who was denied the chance to have an abortion, due to state regulations?
5) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who has been laid off due to the Federal budget sequester?
6) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who was furloughed during the brief Federal Government shutdown and then did not get back pay for the time furloughed?
7) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who was unable to find a meaningful job because of Right to Work legislation in the state where they live?
Now for the flip side:
8) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who had their existing health insurance policy cancelled as a result of Obamacare, and who are now looking at options that are more expensive and have higher deductibles? (My own hand goes up.)
9) How many of you know someone (including yourself) who works for a business whose health insurance coverage is either going to be eliminated or become more expensive as a result of Obamacare?
Show of hands, everyone?
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