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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:29am PT
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^Always possible to make logically incorrect statements. Oh there's one now.
Gun sales have increased and the oceans are more polluted.
So more guns do mean more ocean pollution.
So don't pack and surf too. Unless of course you like to swim in dirty water.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:40am PT
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Shhhhh, Jody!
Anti-gunners don't want to hear that over a million times a year US citizens prevent or deter felons in flagrante delicto, often without firing a shot.
Besides, YOU'RE WRONG!
There is all that nasty lead pollution.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 07:56am PT
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Piton Ron, that is an absurd statistic. Must be from some NRA rag. Gun sales up in Colorado as the right wing fear machine goes into high gear. Gunsters, the most paranoid, easily misled group of people in the US. Where are you going to find room for all that ammo - did you finally clear out the Y2K storage room?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 27, 2012 - 08:39am PT
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 27, 2012 - 09:08am PT
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Crankster, absurd is dismissing a statistic purely out of emotion.
Have you read The Armed Citizen?
It happens many times every day.
That is why you don't hear about it.
IT ISN'T NEWS!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 27, 2012 - 09:13am PT
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Am I allowed to have a personal flame thrower?
With an extended fuel tank?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 27, 2012 - 09:38am PT
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Am I allowed to have a personal flame thrower?
With an extended fuel tank?
well of course you are allowed!
refer to Premise #1: " If the Bad Guys can have it, then we should too, for self defense."
for example, we should all be able to have the 16 inch guns of the USS Iowa in our back yard, because...wait for it......the Bad Guys might be able recommission the USS Missouri.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 27, 2012 - 09:38am PT
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Shack, again while I don't claim to be an expert, I know the difference between hi-cap pistol magazines and high capacity mags for rifles. I didn't put it in that post, but I did in a previous one. More than 20 rounds is what I was referring to. And I will stand by my statement that few folks are going to be carrying around mags bigger than 20 rounds for self defense in everyday circumstances. Yes, the theater guy's weapon jammed, but maybe it would have jammed sooner with a smaller mag? We can't know that one way or another. Loughner, the Tucson shooter, was subdued by bystanders while reloading, so it does happen.
I do find it kind of strange that in a full theater in CO there was no one else armed. Certainly, I'd expect CO to be close to UT in that regard, and that there would be at least a few folks carrying. Or maybe there were, but they were either too stunned, scared, or otherwise made a decision not to draw.
Ron, you mention the wolves at the door (in Rox jest I know), but really how often is one's home going to be under attack by multiple heavily armed attackers? If it is one guy, isn't that single 15 round mag going to be enough for all you experts? Or the shotgun with a few rounds?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 27, 2012 - 09:38am PT
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Well that dude doesn't have small dick syndrome. Hell, I'll bet it's been years since he has even seen it!
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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Jul 27, 2012 - 10:38am PT
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Jim, would you rather they be killed with something else besides guns? The fact of the matter is that crime in the UK is worse than the US. The murder rate actually went up after the 1997 gun confiscation law went into effect. The United States crime rate has fallen to an all-time low despite no new gun-control laws being enacted recently.
So, while the crime rate is higher in the UK, the number of deaths is lower?
Sounds like an argument for gun control.
Here's a factoid: When my brother was a Bianchi Cup shooter back in the '80s and early '90s, guys from Canada and Australia were not only placing high but winning it. So, with gun control, you guys can still have your toys to play with.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 27, 2012 - 10:40am PT
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Whoever compared guns to porn was right on. I would rather have people obsessed with perverted sex than with violence.
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g-tech
Trad climber
Oakland!
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Jul 27, 2012 - 10:41am PT
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LEARN YOUR HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929... to 1953, about 20million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated...
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated...
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated...
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to1952, 20million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, are rounded up and exterminated...
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated...
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated...
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated..
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:11am PT
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That was attempted murder. Who are you talking about?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:13am PT
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MH has no "problem" with me... he's a good guy....
Strange that when looked into, the statistics do not support any conclusions on whether or not gun ownership has a positive or negative affect on crime... it's the worst possible result since both sides can continue to offer their opinion.
One cannot support the claim that having a gun prevents crime... there isn't the evidence, nor can one say that having a gun causes more crime.
Crimpergirl's questions get to the heart of the matter, the individuals who advocate for guns have a particular point-of-view regarding their need to carry an item which can inflict lethal damage to another person. While there are other reasons for having guns, in the end it is retaining this capability, the capability to kill someone else, which seems to be at the source of passion regarding this point.
The complication is the interpretation of the Second Amendment...
People who advocate for this right must accept the fact that guns will be used, by otherwise normal people, to kill other people. It is the price that is paid for having open access to an object whose main purpose is to kill someone. Whether or not the gun is used to do that, or is a deterrent, in the end it provides the ability to the user to cause someone else's death.
THAT IS ITS PURPOSE.
It is an interesting question as to why we feel we need to have that ability.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:33am PT
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Still he did a stupid thing and lost his career over a gun. Perhaps he needed more training. lol
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:38am PT
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It is an interesting question as to why we feel we need to have that ability.
Could it be, Ed, that you have never been subject to a lethal threat?
Jim, my dick may be smaller than yours, but it is bigger than others and has gotten the job done often enough.
It is a weak argument from logical/political perspective.
The vast majority of my acquisitions are predicated on the assumption that society will continue to function in a moderately safe, if highly profligate and inefficient manner.
If I am wrong, then the very modest percentage that I have invested in ordnance may have proven very wise.
But here is the kicker;
thanks to Obama or whatever other factors, my ordnance collection has appreciated more percentage wise in the past few years than my portfolio.
Some of my stuff has gone up 5 times in value!
And I didn't even use Viagra!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:08pm PT
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Hunting
[Click to View YouTube Video]
What would never appeal to someone who is a hunter at heart:
Hunting the Umerican way
"There has been a big increase in so-called "exotic hunting", where guests not only go after indigenous species such as wolves and bears, but also blast away at imported zebras and giraffes. Convenience is essential for the hedge-fund crowd. Most exotic hunts take place in ranches from which the animals can't escape (Texas has 600). Exotic hunters can shoot elephants from cars or from the backs of other elephants, sometimes the orphaned calves of the victims of previous hunts. For the truly lazy there is "just-in-time shooting", where animals are trained to turn up at certain hours, and "internet shooting", where you can guide the gun from your desk."
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
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Let's see, guns have NOTHING to do with pollution. Guns DO have something to do with crime, usually by preventing it.
Clearly guns do have something to do with pollution
If you look around guns have a lot to do with crime, usually facilitating it.
Off-the wall, specious arguments (cum hoc ergo propter hoc) and made up statistics.
The Bush tax cuts actually caused the increase in gun sales, by giving more disposable income to people. The cuts are also responsible for the decreae in crime, since folks have more disposable income they have less need to commit crimes.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
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Ron, vote for Obama....no telling how much your arsenal will be worth! Did have fun BITD with you and Crusher popping a few beer cans.
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