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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 14, 2012 - 02:06am PT
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A broken sea shell that has been digested in a vat of hydrochloric acid and shot to a planet on the other side of the galaxy and is now stuck in the decending colon of an alien dung beast has a a better chance of rational thought in this case than you do!
You're an idiot, your daddy is an idiot and the more you talk the more I am sure your grand daddy and his daddy are also idiots. Just shut the hell up already.
A one dimensional flea, in the universe Flat, that has been ran over by a steam roller has a better grasp of all the sides of this incident than you.
BEST response on this thread!
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Apr 14, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
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Thank for your take on things FAT.
Meanwhile, Paint comes to Shove in sunny FLA (a few hundred miles south of Sanford). I wonder what it's like living down there? Before anyone pitches a fit and says this isn't real, I'll just point out that it's billed as reality.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 14, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
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It's clear that Zimmerman approached Martin and not the other way around. When you confront someone, it's hardly "standing your ground"
Sorta like going up to someone in a bar, saying "you lookin at me punk" and shooting them if they push back....not really self-defense
Dershowitz clearly likes to be in the limelight, but he is discussing the affidavit itself, which needs to stand on its own. Do the contents, warrant the charge? His opinion is that it does not. He is experienced and plenty smart.
My memory is foggy but isn't he the same lawyer than helped get poor innocent OJ Simpson off the hook when the racists suspected he killed his wife. Funny how defense lawyers clients are never guilty
and would be interesting to see how the Zimmerman defenders now commented on the Simpson case back then.
peace
Karl
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Apr 14, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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I'm pretty sure D. had something to say, but don't think he was on the "team" (Johnny Cochran, Robert Shaprio, F. Lee Bailey, and Barry Schenck).
But, let D speak for himself:
These "facts" give rise to several possible scenarios of what may actually have occurred on that dark rainy night. Under the Florida self-defense statute, it matters greatly what happened, most especially who "initially provoke[d] the use of force," and who started the physical encounter.
If Zimmerman initially provoked the deadly encounter, then he cannot invoke any "stand your ground" defense. He would then be under a legal obligation to "exhaust ... every reasonable means to escape."
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 14, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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It's interesting to see how people choose sides on this.
For me I look at what started everything because that is not in dispute. Z pursued M. Until it goes to jury and we have most of the facts we don't know if Z is telling the truth about what happened after that or not. But since Z pursued M and killed him I would think he would be arrested and suspected of at least manslaughter. Since that didn't happen people were rightly pissed. There was a national outcry (and again charges of racism because the police let Z go without a good investigation).
In my mind I've read some other things that make me question Z's story. It's seems bogus and the 911 cries of help sound like a 17 year old not a 28 year old.
So for those who immediately jump on Z's side it's not about that evidence or reason. It's about what they WANT to believe. Typical of right wingers. And for those immediately ready to condemn Z and fry him without all the evidence, they are also showing their true colors.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 14, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
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It's the hoody, the hood that's guilty.
If you got it on you're guilty of doing something, what ever that is.
In Yosemite I see climbers with hoods up lookin down.
They're guilty of doin sumthin, probably adding a bolt or grabbing a piece of gear and then claiming all free.
They always get a way with this sh!t!!!!!
Somebody send me a Taser .......
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
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My guess is a lot of defense attorneys privately do believe their clients are guilty.
Doesn't matter as they are contracted to provide the best defense possible.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 14, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
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And for those immediately ready to condemn Z and fry him without all the evidence, they are also showing their true colors.
There's difference between wanting to fry him and believing that if you kill someone who did nothing to you and was not committing any crime, that person should be arrested and be examined by the legal system
peace
karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2012 - 03:20pm PT
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Request:
Would someone explain to me just what the kid's grades in school have to do with this?
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Apr 14, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
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Would someone explain to me just what the kid's grades in school have to do with this?
It's tangible to what Werner said.
If your dumb and have a hoody, your a worthless human being and up to no good.
Simple as that to many.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Apr 14, 2012 - 04:45pm PT
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happie,
Having "jewelery that wasn't his" might denote a burglary or robbery suspect. I had not heard this claim before.
I'm still waiting to hear more info before jumping to a conclusion. I don't think this was a race based crime because Zman has had several African Americans come to his defense.
TheTool
Zimmerman did not know Martin had "jewelry that wasn't his" when he shot him.... That's why I said it was akin to blaming the short-skirted woman for her being raped.
As for being race-based - I have no idea and don't really care. But since the thread is full of conjecture, I might as well toss in that last night I was thinking about some things, and one memory that came up was of a volunteer fireman that a friend was married to...
That guy was a very gung-ho volunteer fireman. Always there and available on the scene. My friend began to wonder, how that could be, in such a spread out place as they lived, that out of all the volunteers, he seemed to be the one most often available. Even though he worked a full-time job. Why, it was almost as if those fires scheduled themselves around his itinerary...
She had other issues in the marriage and divorced the person, and I never did ask her if part of why she got the hell away was that she suspected her "upright citizen" was an arsonist.
You know - often when someone is "really interested" in pointing the fingers at others, it is because they are trying to deflect any attention from themselves....
At any rate - total conjecture and baseless, based on what we do know about this guy(not much) - but it occurred to me last night, after having glanced at that record of his rather frequent calls about suspicious behavior, that it would be pretty sickening if it ended up that he was the one committing some of the burglaries that were going on in that area.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 14, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
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Manzanita Man,
It seems like the kid was a trouble maker.
But how is that relevant?
Ok, on second thought how about this?
BECAUSE the kid had a history of not so good grades and graffiti and maybe he stole some jewelry, then this would be a basis for the contention that he had the mentality
of perhaps being the one to "provoke" Zimmerman?
And so when Zimmerman shot him, it could have been because Z was in fear of his life,
the kid was maybe refusing to follow Zimmerman's "order" to maybe stop, maybe turned around and approached Zimmerman in a threatening manner?
Is that why the Trayvon's grades and trouble maker history are relevant?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Apr 14, 2012 - 06:14pm PT
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It seems that the only "Hoodies" some posters approve of have little eye holes cut in them.
I wonder how some of these same citizens would post if it were a dead white boy in Overton?
Ugly is as Ugly does.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Apr 14, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
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if you are going to bring up zmans past and make it relevant to this case, its only fair that trayvons past be brought up also. or is that not fair?
Fair enough.
Has anyone seen the actual report, rather than the paper's reporting of it?In any event, a screwdriver does not qualify as a "burglary" tool since it has so many other uses.
From what's been said M had a possible propensity for grafitti and jewelry (maybe an aspiring pawn star, receiver of stolen property, jewel thief, barterer of drugs for jewelry - who knows?).
Z on the other hand had a possible propensity for violence (assault on a police officer, domestic abuse).
In both cases neither was ever convicted.
Connect up the dots. Violence! Who got killed Z or M?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 14, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
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If someone with an ugly history kills someone with a sketchy history, they still need to be accountable
peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Apr 14, 2012 - 07:27pm PT
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Your brain ain't worth a sack of rotten dog sh#t.
Even if it were burning on your door step?
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Apr 14, 2012 - 10:36pm PT
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manzanita man, My good friend in Chico works for The State of California in foster adoptions...She is good peeps, and works hard to protect the kids, and tries to find good homes.
She loves to hear a success story... I'm glad for you....
You may be successful with your life, but your words sometimes come across as something approaching hate...maybe work on that, and you will be a better person....
I judge people by their words and actions, not what they look like.. but it's not always easy and I struggle with it sometimes.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Apr 14, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
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so when i see people using stuff that happened to
their great great great great grandparents to justify their behavior, it
gets me a little ticked. especially when they have no grounds. i am sorry
for my rants, i should be better than that.
It's a sad story you tell. You didn't get a fair deal. Trayvon Martin did not either. I'd think from your experience, you'd be sympathetic. Trayvon isn't saying anything about his great ... grandparents - he's dead.
You certainly don't need to be sorry for speaking up, but you do need to listen too.
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wildone
climber
EP
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Apr 14, 2012 - 11:14pm PT
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Good thing you didn't get shot and killed!
Right?
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