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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Karl,
So, you understand suicide bombings, you're upset Osama wasn't taken alive.
Interesting!
Your spewings are base in little or no fact, you only imagine all we hear is lies.
I am sorry but you siding and defending
a man like Bin Laden really rubs me the wrong way.
I wonder why you choose to live in a country, that gives you so much freedom to live your lifestyle, and loath it so much.
I was almost killed in 9/11, I'm glad the sh#t bag is dead.
I respect and love my country, even though we blunder at times.
amen.
while i agree with some of what karl posts, and questioning is fine, he reminds me of a kid whose parent was wrong on one thing in the kids life so that forevermore the parent will always be wrong in that child's eyes.
of course there has been a lot of mis-reported information. i watched sunday night and read a lot of other reports and watched quite a bit of the news. the press took this story and frickin ran with it much like the football player heading to the wrong endzone.
just because we have the technology to report "live" does not mean that ALL the FACTS are reproted correctly as soon as the event happens.
my point karl is that you are obfuscating the recent killing of OBL with whatever wrongs the US has ever done. i don't know why you dont throw vietnam, slavery and everything else in the mix...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I think the policy against targeted killings is really just a "honor among thieves" thing.
Leaders don't want to be assassination targets so they make it off limits in general.
Cause otherwise why is it OK to drop bombs on all kinds of houses full of people knowing you're killing terrorists and civilians alike but somehow you can't go after the guy you want? Are we just trying to punish him by killing his people? It's nuts
It's so disingenuous when Nato has bombed Gaddafi's compound a couple times now and claims they aren't trying to get him, just trying to protect civilians somehow
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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my point karl is that you are obfuscating the recent killing of OBL with whatever wrongs the US has ever done. i don't know why you dont throw vietnam, slavery and everything else in the mix...
This thread has been mostly on-topic but there's been some tangents. Everybody wants to celebrate getting the bogyman and then apply to good vibes to validating our war thing. I don't remember how Iraq came up, perhaps because by going to Iraq we lost Bin Laden in Tora Bora.
There are aspects of this that need questioning. What was Bin Laden's actual involvement with 9-11 (KSM was mastermind remember?) What were Bin Laden's goals and strategy and did we play into them? This is a time to get a perspective.
Note that reporting from the Gov was not real time. They had time to have Bin Laden's DNA tested by the time the Government reported that he was armed and used a woman as a shield. So it's not unfair to wonder if they spin stuff for public consumption and to bait extremists.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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You will notice I never resorted to name calling and I will not lower myself to your standards.
I did notice that. I thought I'd be a little more honest about my response to your denigrating remarks.
Would it have been more proper for me to say
"Coz, you seem to hate the truth and want our country to go bankrupt. Why do you hate America. Maybe you should live in Israel where they force you to join the Army and enforce their occupation??"
This "questioning patriotism" card has been overplayed by the right wing and I will no longer stand for it. It's guys like you going along with every war that have weakened our nation economically and in the eyes of the world and who created Bin Laden in the first place. We create these bogeymen and then kill them later while never examining how we empowered them in the first place. Noriega, Saddam, Bin Laden, when was the last time we weren't fighting ex-employees?
Peace
Karl
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shut up and pull
climber
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THANK YOU LIBERALS FOR CLEARING THIS UP!
FROM IOWAHAWK:
I ... completely underestimated the capacity of America's erstwhile "peace community" for turning on a dime and embracing the kind of all-American xenophobic flag-waving bloodlust they only recently decried. So today I stand proudly with my new friends of the formerly antiwar left in a mindlessly jingoistic salute to President Obama for an extralegal military assassination well done.
Yes, it's true that some pre-January 2009 antiwar activists have remained morally and logically consistent in their opposition to America's military presence in the Mideast; but, thank God, it appears now they were only a tiny, insignificant minority. Recent events have happily made clear that the antiwar movement of 2001-8 was overwhelmingly dominated by a vast silent hypocritical majority of craven political opportunists awaiting a Democratic administration to gleefully celebrate the covert execution of a man whom, until 28 months ago, they would have described as a "tragic civilian casualty." ...
Little did I know that this untested young Commander-in-Chief would muster the courage to read his weekly Gallup numbers and, in one daring unilateral extra-judicial targeted hit job, toss aside every single idiotic foreign policy principle of his election campaign. Perhaps most satisfyingly, it was a mission made possible thanks to information extracted by methods he previously banned as "illegal torture."
But this triumphant new era in situationally-unified American bloodlust does not belong to the President alone; we must also cite Congress's born-again waterboarders like Nancy Pelosi and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, and their newfound enthusiasm for what (at least until 9pm Sunday) they would have once considered illegal military murder squads. Neither can we forget the watchdogs of America's press, who have shown unprecedented ethical flexibility in shedding their long-held Gandhi moralism and embracing their inner Rambo. ...
Of course, I'm not naive enough to think our current wave of national unity will last forever. At some point, possibly after the next election, American troops will once again assume their traditional role of psychotic baby-killing objects of fear and pity. ... But when that day comes, we can look back at the week of May 1, 2011 and realize that it isn't personal. Hey, that's just the way the chad crumbles.
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shut up and pull
climber
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THESE ARE OUR ALLIES?
An imam from the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem vowed to take revenge over "the western dogs" for killing Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in Pakistan on Sunday. In a Youtube video uploaded by the imam he said: "The western dogs are rejoicing after killing one of our Islamic lions. From Al-Aqsa Mosque, where the future caliphate will originate with the help of God, we say to them - the dogs will not rejoice too much for killing the lions. The dogs will remain dogs and the lion, even if he is dead, will remain a lion."The imam then verbally attacked US President Barack Obama saying: "You personally instructed to kill Muslims. You should know that soon you'll hang together with Bush Junior."
Sami al-Abasi notes at Pajamas Media that the Muslim Brotherhood has issued one statement on the death of bin Laden in English for foreign consumption and another in Arabic for its native followers. Al-Abasi observes that the statement refers to the killing of "Sheikh" Osama bin Laden, using an honorific title, and condemns the attack as an assassination.
The Al-Aksa Martyr's Brigade, affiliated with the Fatah movement of Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, has put out this statement on the death of bin Laden. In their announcement, a copy of which reached MAAN [private Palestinian news agency], the [Al-Aqsa Martyrs'] Brigades said: "The Islamic nation awoke to a catastrophe the reports of the Shahid - (Martyr-) death of the Sheikh, Jihad-fighter Osama bin Laden, in a treacherous manner, by the gangs of the heretics and those who stray."
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shut up and pull
climber
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GOOD JOB BARRY.
American Indians object to ‘Geronimo’ as code for bin Laden raid
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shut up and pull
climber
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The Hill: Pelosi Thanks Bush For His Role In Bin Laden’s Destruction. “House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) said she called former President George W. Bush on Tuesday to congratulate him on the capture and killing of Osama bin Laden. Following a classified briefing on the operation to take down bin Laden, Pelosi told reporters that she called the former president earlier in the day to ‘congratulate him and thank him for the leadership role he had played in this quest over the years.’”
One sign of graciousness from an otherwise dimwitted nutjob.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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if my last name was Arab origin i would change it...
nice job on getting that sucker seals!
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shut up and pull
climber
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UH OH. OBAMA'S MAN PANETTA PULLS ASIDE THE CURTAIN.
WATERBOARDING + GITMO = DEAD OSAMA.
LIBS = EGG ALL OVER FACE.
Williams: Turned around the other way, are you denying that waterboarding was in part among the tactics used to extract the intelligence that led to this successful mission?
Panetta: No, I think some of the detainees clearly were — you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I’m also saying that the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.
Williams: So, final point, one final time: enhanced interrogation techniques, which has always been kind of a handy euphemism in these post-9/11 years, that includes waterboarding.
Panetta: That’s correct.
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shut up and pull
climber
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FROM INSTAPUNDIT:
JERUSALEM IMAM: Obama Will Soon Hang For Killing Bin Laden. Okay, first, any talk of hanging is just plain racist. Stupid racist imam.
Second, what’s this about how dogs should not rejoice after killing a lion? If I were a dog, and I killed a lion, I’d damn sure rejoice.
But Osama was more of a jackal, you know? And if this dumbass keeps talking, people might get the idea that we’re at war with Islam or something. And trust me, your Imam-ness, you don’t want Americans to decide that.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Although we Conservatives find it genuinely hopeful that Liberals overcame their brainwashing and are celebrating the righteous death of Bin Laden will it have any lasting benefit? For instance will Liberals now stop interfering with the executions of convicted murderers in US prisons?
OT
A Los Gatos school student related the following story to her family
Monday evening: At the beginning of class the teacher said they should discuss the death of Osama Bin Laden. All the students broke out in cheering
and applause to which the teacher broke out in tears.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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if my last name was Arab origin i would change it...
I work with a guy who did just that. A sad commentary on America that he felt the need to do so. Even sadder is that he was right.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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My family changed our name during WW1.
We went from "Von" Weese to "Van" Weese.
It seems Germans weren't real popular here then.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Yes, watching liberals rejoice at the assassination of bin Laden inside a foreign country is -- to say the least -- heartening. It is especially hopeful that liberals might be coming around, especially after their celebration of Michael Moore's "Farenheit 9-11" movie where libs have, for a decade, claimed that Bush orchestrated 9-11, not bin Laden.
Libs -- do you now renounce your idiotic view that Bush caused 9-11?
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shut up and pull
climber
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THE 1,000,000,000,000 DOLLAR QUESTION FOR LIBS:
Why are you celebrating the death of bin Laden if Bush masterminded 9-11?
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dirtbag
climber
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Our liberal community members must be shuttering at Obama having broken so many laws.
OK Fatty, who here is upset? A few perhaps. Most? Doubt it.
The US likely broke at least one international law. But on the other hand...we have given so much money to Pakistan the last few years to get rid of their rats, and it is clear they are both unwilling and unable to do so. Pakistan has wanted it both ways, the money and the sovereignty but without providing results: well, tough sh#t.
And btw, this was exactly the sort of operation I think we should have emphasized doing all along instead of nation building.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Ahhh, now liberals are all OK with assassinating folks on foreign soil, and extracting information using waterboarding, and holding Islamofascists at Gitmo, and using secret prisons.
One word -- Classssssssssssssic!
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dirtbag
climber
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Which is why relations with Pakistan have been so difficult.
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jstan
climber
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We really need to get a handle on the beast. Why do we let discussions deteriorate in this way? I think the first thing we need to do is realize even our strongest feelings do not even exist a hair's breadth outside of our brains. But to the point.
Today's paper comments that Bin Laden's fate was probably sealed simply by the rules of engagement. I raised the issue of his being captured alive because this is the kind of people we are trying to be. Without a doubt his being dead is less inconvenient for us but that is no proof that this is the reason he is dead. To make such a proof one has to ascribe one's own weaknesses to others.
Nothing is perfect. Always to insist on perfection is foolishness. It is enough to ask for the reasonable.
Had we bombed the compound we would have telegraphed a lack of commitment. An unwillingness to risk danger. A willingness to have innocents killed so that we might be in no danger. A willingness to accept "once over lightly." This is offensive. In no wise is it admirable.
A final comment on the CIA. A lot of crap has always gone on over at the CIA. Only a portion of it is necessary crap. There is such a thing as necessary crap. It takes a strong President who knows the difference to make the CIA work effectively.
When Valerie Plame was outed for political gain by all logic the CIA should have been totally and permanently destroyed. A national asset - gone. Why was it not? There are good people. There are always good people. Indeed the commitment is so strong even families over several generations have worked in the CIA. All that is needed is a direct order in the national interest from a strong leader to bring that commitment to the fore. This was a resurrection. A totally awesome accomplishment after the destruction wrought by Bush/Cheney.
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