Sobriety (off topic or not)?

If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.

If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.

"Feb 21, 2012 - 11:50am PT


I got something. Stop whining, stop focusing on drink, stop feeling so superiour to the other drunks. You ain't beat the villian if everyday you are still fighting the battles.


One of the many problems with AA is the insistance that there is no cure, no time when you are free of the problem. That you cannot do it alone, that you must have "a higher power" to lean on. Its a club that once you get beat-in you can't possibly leave. Remember, every group is differenet, you can get whatever strokes you think you need from somebody, but they are always trading your need for theirs. The people that feed on AA, that feed on being better than you, more sober than you. Don't tell me they don't exist, they are everywhere.

AA provides a perfect place for upmanship games, they constantly preach that there is no way to do it yourself, its EXPLICIT in the course, there is no choice but AA or continuing on a downhill sprint. And that is their biggest self serving lie.



I got lots for these guys. I got everything except pity or sympathy.

And that is what ever so many dry drunks feed on. The power of the coin.


Its worse than the Boy Scouts, everything has to feed the addiction, there is always another coin. I understand that feeding the addiction with alcohol is bad. I also think feeding the addiction with yap and pride and endless games is bad, its STILL feeding the addiction.



If you can't accept that, consider your motivations. I got as much reason/cause/concern to post as anybody, I ain't no virgin to drugs. But I refuse to see my life as bounded by addiction on all sides. I CHOOSE to drink, sometimes I CHOOSE to drink to excess. each and every one of us CHOOSES and putting that CHOICE as being the fault of the booze is a feel good lie ever so many make, with the endless support of AA. The one thing every AA meeting seems to have is a strong grip on eternity, on NEVER letting a person think it OVER because of THEIR decision, not that of the "higher power" or the flunky in charge of passing out the cookies.

You want to play that game, thats fine, as long as its explicit its a game.




Men are strong enough on their own to make the decisions they need, and if they are not, they should stop blaming forces exteriour to themselves.


I have had to place people in rehab, even once pretty much against their will, though with the help of a judge. But I never sentenced them to a lifetime of talking about it, endless meetings with other drunks and associations with people who are not especially desirious.

I really disagree with a lot of what AA stands for. It's a con club whose first goal is to perpetuate itself and its individual power structures.


And Yes, perhaps not EVERY AA meeting is that way. But ever so many are, its a damn FRANCHISE for Chirsts sake, and power and influence follow when you are dealing with people who are in a weakened state of self-respect. AA is destructive of self relieance and self respect, they teach that you can do nothing by yourself, you NEED that higher power, that mentor, and the meetings to achieve the stated ends.

I say you need nobody but yourself and a hard look with a firm resolve. That Alcholism is NOT a lifetime sentence brought on as a curse from beyond your control.

And fact is, there ARE other groups than AA, there ARE other philosophys and there ARE people who have the ability to even go back to drinking without destroying everything they gained. And that ability can be trained and improved upon.

There ARE other, perfectly functioning and perfectly successful methods and groups and techniques, and that "once a drunk, always a drunk" is NOT the last word in treatment. Those who most promote the AA screed do the most damage to personal inititive, to personal dignity and the personal knowledge that your life is your own to control.





So a climbing website is no good for LEB to blather on about off topic sh#t, but its a FINE place for YOU guys to clutter up with completely OT threads?

I see no reason to support an AA chapter on ST.


Is that enough for you?

DOESN'T MATTER! I am finished. "

Jennie, who is an attractive woman (other have said it) gets turned off by some of the 'creeps', yes creeps may be the correct word, who try hitting on her and other vulnerable women in the group/meeting, so she avoids the meetings. At first I thought that was an excuse, but several discussions with other women confirms that there are guys who go to meetings just to try and hit on women. Sad, isn't it.

Thankfully, in my reading of the program at least, there is nothing attaches a recovering alcoholic's HP to anything like a god, or a God, particularly as it relates to any of the commercial religions.