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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Mar 31, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
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Only some molecule would keep coming back with lol.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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there's horn rims and horny rims, and it really pays to know the difference. Sexy librarian versus shrew.
whenz the damn LHC gonna bang out my mini black hole? Will the gravitas of Largoz proclamations leak into the next universe? Will Werner wash his intempura fugu down with a mercarita? What strange future will we wrought once we wrestle this dark demon into our experimental results?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Does Werner know he has a (Polish) doppleganger over at CascadeClimbers.com?
True. All true.
Talk about parallel universes.
Da Polish und Zee German. It really doesn't get any better than that.
I don't think this guy drinks merctinis and poos Romex, though.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Same web personality phenotype.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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His twin has a wife.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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I've tried to read through this thread on occasion seeking an answer(s); or more aptly put, opinions, as to "what is mind?" for a couple of years now. My purpose in doing so what not to try and answer the question; but rather gain some insight into what is my mind.
I have great difficulty in answering many "self" questions such as who am I?,what makes me tick? and why do I struggle with accepting who or whatever I am?
After reading many posts, I readily admit that I am not such a "high thinker" as some of the more scientific or philosophical minds here, I struggle at at the basics.
I attempted again to today to read it through the entire thread, side-stepping the pitfalls of the seemingly inevitable bickering that stems from online debates, miscommunication and the irrefutable fact that such a simply posed question cannot be answered in a like manner.
I don't know much; but I believe that "mind" is a multifaceted system or state of consciousness; perhaps an evolving set of beliefs. Some facets exist alone in individuals, or said individuals pay heed primarily to one facet and discount others. (If it is not proven does that mean it does not exist? Put another way, because you have not discovered it, does that mean it is not there?)
From a personal perspective, I am constantly told of attributes that I possess; but I do not recognize them. If I don't recognize them, do they exist?
Is there one answer to the question? I don't believe there is a tangible answer to what mind is. Very bad news for me; because I desperately need one.
And nice to see Jingy actively engaged.
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jstan
climber
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gain some insight into what is my mind.
To begin, your reading this whole thread suggests you have the ability to perform heroic tasks with no prospect of reward.
That said I would caution you against desperation in the search for your mind. Desperation is a tool that cuts both ways. Indeed there is no need for such.
How so? There is substantial clinical data showing that much of what our minds do is not visible to us. Since we cannot know, we are well advised to decline to use as a fundamental benchmark what is basically an evanescent function. We value our thought highly simply because it parades as being "US" and it is always there. Our minds make fools of us.
What we do is a better benchmark than is what we think. If you treat your wife well, you have data saying in at least that sphere of behavior, you are a "good" man. What we expend the effort actually to do, is real data. If I may, I will modify an old saying,
The road to Hell is paved with good thoughts,
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WBraun
climber
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From all the authoritative statements of the great sages: of which the gross materialists will immediately reject
The Vedic hymns and the aphorisms of the Vedānta-sūtra, the components of this world are earth, water, fire, air and ether.
These are the five great elements (mahābhūta). Then there are false ego, intelligence and the unmanifested stage of the three modes of nature.
Then there are five senses for acquiring knowledge: the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and touch.
Then five working senses: voice, legs, hands, the anus and the genitals.
Then, above the senses, there is the mind, which is within and which can be called the sense within.
Therefore, including the mind, there are eleven senses altogether.
Then there are the five objects of the senses: smell, taste, warmth, touch and sound.
Now the aggregate of these twenty-four elements is called the field of activity.
If one makes an analytical study of these twenty-four subjects, then he can very well understand the field of activity.
Then there is desire, hatred, pleasure and pain, which are interactions, representations of the five great elements in the gross body.
The living symptoms, represented by consciousness and conviction, are the manifestation of the subtle body-mind, ego and intelligence.
These subtle elements are included within the field of activities.
The five great elements are a gross representation of the subtle false ego.
They are a representation in the material conception. Consciousness is represented by intelligence, of which the unmanifested stage is the three modes of material nature.
The unmanifested three modes of material nature is called pradhāna.
One who desires to know the twenty-four elements in detail along with their interactions should study the philosophy in more detail.
The body is the representation of all these factors, and there are changes of the body, which are six in number:
the body is born, it grows, it stays, it produces by-products, then begins to decay, and at the last stage it vanishes.
Therefore the field is a nonpermanent material thing.
However, the kṣetrajña, the knower of the field, its proprietor, is different.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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What we do is a better benchmark than is what we think (jstan)
I agree, John, but I wonder about Largo . . .
;>)
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Moosedrool, the attributes were named as reasons for maintaining my life; how much sincerity was involved, I cannot say. Regarding someone such as myself, who suffers from very low self-esteem and/or self-worth, the old adage "that flattery will get you nowhere" holds very true. The flattery goes in one ear and out the other.
There is substantial clinical data showing that much of what our minds do is not visible to us.
With that being said, I have to add that when someone suffers mental disabilities, much less is visible and/or understandable (and no clinical data is needed, other than my own self-analysis).
Werner, I will have to ponder that awhile.
I don't want to go further OT with "the mental health hotline" drift, so carry on.
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jstan
climber
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What we do is a better benchmark than is what we think (jstan)
I agree, John, but I wonder about Largo . . .
Rather than discuss personalities I would recount Dan Dennett's model for philosophers. To wit that their end goal is to come up with some argument, any argument, that causes their opponent's head to explode (as in "Mars Attacks"). They have no other goal.
Dan is listed as a philosopher but in my estimation he is a closet physicist/mathematician. He thinks very carefully before speaking.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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What we do is a better benchmark than is what we think.
I deny that and I wasn't there at the time.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Rather than discuss personalities I would recount Dan Dennett's model for philosophers. To wit that their end goal is to come up with some argument, any argument, that causes their opponent's head to explode (as in "Mars Attacks"). They have no other goal.
Do you really believe that all philosophers want to do is explode heads? Is that what scientists think? Have to say, it seems a bit cynical and a bit general… don’t you think at least some of philosophers are searching for truth?
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jstan
climber
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Nothing wrong with being a gadfly like Socrates, Jstan.
How did that work out for him?
don’t you think at least some of philosophers are searching for truth?
What with their batting average, who can say?
edit:
It really would be nice if there were a "truth" that tells us how to make a decision no matter what else is happening. But that is not life. Generally decisions are an attempt to identify the lesser of two evils. Invariably this requires identification of all the unexpected consequences. Unfortunately those consequences are "unexpected".
Is not the desire for "truth" often merely a desire for an easy way out?
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Sullly write me. I just walked by a bookstore and a book jumped out at me: "How to Read and Why" (Bloom). You know it?
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WBraun
climber
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Read???
These guys don't read.
They're way too busy washing their lab coats to keep them white and constantly recalibrating their instruments against a standard that constantly changes.
Instead they should be calibrating their tools too The "Standard".
No wonder they remain so bewildered, confused, and argumentative ....
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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^^^^^^^^^^^
I choked on my laughter. (Good lord I'm getting old.)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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What we do is a better benchmark than is what we think.
Yea, for a benchmark!(an established point of reference). But is what we do what's most significant? More poignantly; most important? Isn't it our intellect, our hopes, and dreams, and love the motivating factor to get us/me to do what it is we/I do? But that's a prior reference to what we/I do, slash "benchmark". So if "do.ing" is the reference point, we ought to be do'ing "it" for atleast equal or positive exchange. isn't the seeking of exchange, be it for either positive reinforcement, or comarodity, or for God's sake's, a chance at reward of more significance than "do'ing"? maybe these things are evanescent,ok. And your right for standing up in the evolutionist bleachers screaming "Cause-n-Effect, Material determinism"! But do you really think if Albert Einstein wasn't born we would have never discovered Mc2?? Seems to me the environment pushing, pulling, asking, wanting, had more to do with constituting a theory of relativity than Albert done did!?
"Do's" by the individual are Great! But they aren't anything without the environment pushing the pace..
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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I gotta say, that mercury stuff goes right through ya.
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