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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 12, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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Dr. F, I'll be back to answer yo questions. Just tired.....long few days. Smiles, lynne
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 09:25pm PT
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jstan
Very cool! God is beyond time and space, He created it! But what I was saying is you can keep going back, something doesn't come from nothing, so before all creation God was still God!
P.S. We all started out with a Bang?
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 12, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
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jstan, but remember the Aztecs, who were able to convince entire populations that the sun might not come back every morning unless the gods were appeased with a human heart or five, every day, just because the priests said so.
That's the sort of thing about religion that really riles the ethical atheist's nonexistent soul. An example of how silly fairy stories can inflict unforgivable pain and suffering on the gullible masses. And Christianity, for all its watered-down feelgood modernized pieties, began with a human sacrifice too.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 09:47pm PT
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"And Christianity, for all its watered-down feel good modernized pieties, began with a human sacrifice too."
True, You'll have to ask God why He had to do it that way? But He accepted it! God is ethical and just, and true to Himself, He never changes, but He shows mercy!
If a Muslim, Christian, or Aztec Killed me, I wouldn't blame God, for what they did!
Edit; I like them bones(fossils), I just know there's more to it...
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 12, 2009 - 09:51pm PT
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You can't blame someone who doesn't exist, either.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 09:56pm PT
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"Why does God care about anything we do?
And obviously God doesn't care about anything we do, since it is being done"
Free will...
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 09:59pm PT
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Locker,
"Dam Apes" Charlton Heston
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 10:10pm PT
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Don't worry it's part of O'B care also!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Just kidding!
Edit; We didn't know all the things we know now. Science is the discovery of what God gave us and make use of it, not to kill Him!
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jstan
climber
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Oct 12, 2009 - 10:30pm PT
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"Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
Oct 12, 2009 - 06:56pm PT
"Why does God care about anything we do?
And obviously God doesn't care about anything we do, since it is being done"
Free will..."
I threatened to come back on that earlier post and Gobee has set me up. That post again, the interpreted version.
This requires some interpretation (added).
"God didn't have to send his Son but then(in that case) we could (would) not be with Him(God) because are(our) sin would be unforgiven (for God is Holy)(sic). So God sent His Son Jesus who new (knew) no sin, because He (God) LOVES US and wants us to be with Him (God)!"
We begin:
Why did God have to send Jesus to earth? God is all-powerful. He could just as well forgive us after he got us to Heaven. Right? All-powerful people can do as they please. We have recent data on that point.
He may have sent Jesus down because he is not all-powerful in Heaven. He might not be able to forgive us there at all. So we have to be forgiven while still on earth.
Now let’s ask whether god is all-powerful on earth. First of all I will cite all the horrible things that happen to us down here, mind you along with all the good things. If god were so focussed on our happiness and he were all powerful down here, it would be pretty apparent to us. No toothaches and such.
There’s another bit of data. Suppose god were all powerful on earth and either here or in Heaven, I was facing god as it decides whether to forgive me. You know what I would say? I’m not all that bright but I would say, “Kind Sir. Since you are all-powerful on earth and in Heaven it is you who are responsible for any evil things I have done. An example. In an auto accident the guilty party is judged to be “the last person who might have prevented the accident.” So if you are the last person who could have prevented evil doings by me, I DON”T NEED ANY FORGIVENESS.”
So it is, everything we see indicates god has little power either on earth or in Heaven( if Heaven exists at all.) The data supports this model very clearly.
So why would he send Jesus to earth? I’ll advance a hypothesis. The bible urges us quite frequently to do some things and not others. God may have wanted to have a person we could look at while we were hearing those things. Would you not think this is the most persuasive way to give us counsel?
This hypothesis is by no means a stretch. If we are right in the discussion above and god is not all-powerful he would have to do something like this. He apparently sent his son. We also have to consider the possibility god had been viewing human behavior for a time. In that case he would have had to know there was a chance we would do what we did to his son.
If we assume god ( if it exists) really cares about us, and he does not have any power, then everything we see is explained.
It is very simply up to us to lead the best life we can, with or without god's help.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 10:32pm PT
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We had to leave Eden by not obeying God. All down hill from there!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 12, 2009 - 10:36pm PT
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Geeez Dr. F, didn't anyone ever tell you that the little irritations in life; germs, gum disease, republicans etc. are just god's vetting process to see what kind of a house you get in heaven.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Oct 12, 2009 - 10:37pm PT
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No, Man. Eden is right down the Road.
Beautiful Eden, Idaho.
It IS Eden for Rockchucks, anyway.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Oct 12, 2009 - 10:52pm PT
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LOOK! it's Ardi!!!!!!
Ardi of Eden has quite the Ring.......
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 11:00pm PT
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"How does Ardi fit in with Eden?"
One of God's creatures!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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No, were humans!
Edit; How come animals don't talk by now?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 12, 2009 - 11:39pm PT
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Clearly, if animals could talk there could be no god, that's just logic!
Dr F, that's just how germs speak to us....
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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So only primates to men evolved? With all the time Dogs spend with us they should speak whatever language we speak?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 11:47pm PT
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Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 11:52pm PT
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"and dogs do have a verbal language, and it could evolve to be understood by humans, if it was beneficial to their species survival OVER a million years of gradual step by step change."
I guess four million years wasn't long enough!
Edit; Or maybe they do talk they just don't want us to know they can!
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