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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Jul 16, 2008 - 02:01pm PT
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Jody,
Just trying to truly see if you can extrapolate information.
The example of the virus was to show how in a short enough time of a single human to observe it, change in genetics can happen.
Same with the example of your kids.
Allot of the examples and arguments have been laid out in timeframes that one human can not observe.
So let's extrapolate from my two examples.
If viruses change over time, what would that virus be like in 100 years? 1000 years? 1000000 years?
If your children do not look exactly like you, what will happen during the succeeding generations? Lets say in 1000 generations. Doubtful anyone in your lineage will look anything like you.
If you can understand this, then the concept divergent species is at least possible.
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hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
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Jul 16, 2008 - 02:31pm PT
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Jody there is lots of evidence and many indications of speciation but no absolute proof. The Archaeopteryx has traits of birds and lizards that are exclusive to each species and not found in the other. It is a real stretch to claim that it is a bird and only a bird because it has feathers. There is strong evidence that feathers evolved from scales, that insect wings evolved from gills, that bat wings and whale flippers evolved from hands. The list goes on. I could pit talkorigins.com against answersingenesis.com but that would be pointless.
To me it seems probable to me that the human cell processes evolved and continue to do so to form the web that you tried to confound us with. By analogy (I'm going to regret this since analogies never work) look at computer programming. It is written piece by piece and augmented over time. Occasionally a better section of code is written and the previous one is just commented out but left in there. It builds up into this incredibly complex thing but it is really just a bunch of simple processes that work together in harmony. The same can be said about computer processor design. There is a powerful feedback mechanism in the process. The organism dies if it doesn't work. You will only see the processes that work. It's that simple.
Do you believe that dinosaurs and man walked together and that man may even have ridden dinosaurs as depicted in the Creation Museum in Kentucky?
How did Noah fit the 1.8 million known species on the Ark let alone the millions that have yet to be discovered?
I really hope they find life on Mars. That will make this conversation much more interesting! In what verse do they talk about the creatures of Mars in the Bible?
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Jul 16, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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Jody,
What will the people in your lineage look like in 1000 years?
Probably like this with the brain capcity to match......
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jul 16, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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Today there are Cheetahs, there weren't always Cheetahs. Where did they come from?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jul 16, 2008 - 02:36pm PT
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Evolution in action.
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 16, 2008 - 03:25pm PT
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No divergence.
Interesting.
Populations unable to mate with each other.
Creationists redefine divergence.
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 16, 2008 - 03:45pm PT
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Sorry Jody, subspecies is just a taxonomists term for groups within a species that have some clear distince traits. Implies nothing about not being able to mate.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Species_and_Speciation.html
Subspecies are simply populations or sets of populations within a species that are sufficiently distinct that taxonomists have found it convenient to formally name them, but not distinct enough to prevent hybridization where two populations come into contact.
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 16, 2008 - 03:49pm PT
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Give us the creationists definition of a speciation event.
They do have one right?
Unable to mate is a pretty fundamental test to a speciation event.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jul 16, 2008 - 04:12pm PT
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I was kinda thinking along Monolith's lines, what is the creationist take on what's going on when new species come to be? They come they go, what's up with that?
Congrats on the 666 post, Jody!
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jul 16, 2008 - 04:16pm PT
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Do bacteria count?
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 16, 2008 - 04:29pm PT
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Give us your definition of a 'new kind'?
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hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
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Jul 16, 2008 - 04:49pm PT
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If no new 'kinds' of animals have appeared since Noah, how did he fit the 1.8 million known species on the Ark let alone the 2 to 50 million that are estimated to exist?
If the Noah's Ark part of Genesis is not literally true how does one pick the literally true parts from the metaphorical? Logic? Faith? Divine inspiration?
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Jul 16, 2008 - 04:58pm PT
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halifax,
Noah did not use a boat, he shoved all 3.6 million animals into Jody's relatives ass.
There must have been enough room, with a head that big shoved up ones ass you probably end up expanding things quite a bit........
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jul 16, 2008 - 05:23pm PT
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"Noah did not use a boat, he shoved all 3.6 million animals into Jody's relatives ass."
UD, if the theory of evolution is true (and especially if it isn't) those relatives are also YOUR relatives. LOL
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jul 16, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
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something like a hyena? has cat and dog characteristics, is fairly recent...
I presume we are ignoring mules, ligers, tigons, commercial bananas, etc.
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hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
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Jul 16, 2008 - 06:13pm PT
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What about Archaeopteryx? It has features unique to reptiles and birds. It is one of the closest examples we have of a transition fossil. Without dismissing it out of hand can you explain why it doesn't make speciation plausible. It's not proof but it lends itself to the interpretation.
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hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
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Jul 16, 2008 - 07:05pm PT
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There have been 9 Archaeopteryx fossils found to date. All attempts to prove them as being hoaxes have been shown to be misguided.
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