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ecdh
climber
the east
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Sep 15, 2018 - 03:46pm PT
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Mongolia.
Unfriendly, foreigner leeching, expensive, corrupt, bad food, crime ridden, filthy. Beyond the superficial nomadic fantasy not much to recommend it.
Gimme Kyrgyzstan any day.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Sep 20, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
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If only one murder in our country was prevented by closing the border and cracking down on illegal immigration it would be worth it. Doesn't matter if legal immigrants commit crimes at a higher rate.
Are you sitting back laughing as you write that and anticipate the responses from liberal folks you enjoy riling up, or is this what you really believe (or both)? How do you reconcile the suffering added to the lives of millions of people versus a single (or multiple murders)? It seems to me an issue that requires a much more nuanced consideration.
Jody, what do you think of criminalizing the companies that hire illegal workers versus the person who comes here without a work permit? There are fewer companies to police than individuals without a work permit, and companies are more static in nature, so it would be logistically easier to bust them. Plus, if you take away the promise of a higher income, it would discourage a lot of (but far from all) illegal immigration.
And getting back to some basic mathematics... if the rate of criminality is lower among immigrant populations than native populations, then the overall crime rate actually drops by letting in immigrants. Does the mathematics of that make sense to you? And if so, does your stated opinion change?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Sep 20, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
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Gun issues have many points that would derail the resolution of this discussion point on immigration.
I claim that immigration discussion requires more nuance because it is hard to quantify and compare the suffering of millions of people in an unreasonable immigration policy, the thousands of kids traumatized by being separated from their parents, versus the high suffering/death of a much smaller pool of victims from illegal immigrant violent criminals.
Maybe we can compare just deaths and not mix with dire suffering/live upheavals... in which case I would guess that many more rejected/deported immigrants die in their home countries because of not getting a new start in America, versus those who die of crimes from criminals that are illegally present in America.
I interpret the fear/rejection of immigrants as essentially an echo of imperialistic entitlement. "I am superior (e.g. because of being white and born in USA) and therefore entitled to an easier life than people born elsewhere. I shouldn't have to compete on a level playing field with people from those dirty places. Send them home- unless I have a job I don't want to do and I can pay them very cheaply and not offer them the same dignity and pay and benefits that would be accorded to one of my peers doing the same job."
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Sep 20, 2018 - 06:20pm PT
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Your quote refers to a version of my response as I was in the middle of writing and editing it...
On your point of feelings... yes the "feelings" of people figure largely in human politics. Most people make decisions based on emotions more than on logical conclusions. Some people strive to be as fact and logic-based as possible, but when discussing human affairs, the fact is that people are emotional and logical processing must account for that.
It is an interesting point to contemplate how fear experienced by a large group of people factor into a decision. Can fear of guns by one group be used to justify another group not having the right to use them? Can fear of immigrants by one group justify another group not having the right to exist in USA, or the rights of others to hire them?
Fear, and emotions in general, affect how humans interpret things, how they vote which influences the creation and interpretation of laws... so it is a factor we have to acknowledge. But it is pretty dangerous to use fear as a basis for laws and policies, because the feelings are fickle and highly subjective and perhaps by nature will be divisive and foment civil unrest. Laws should be based on quantifiable outcomes and goals when possible, and if not, then fall back to feelings-based value judgments on which people may strongly disagree. The goals should be fundamentally anchored to: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." There should probably be a clause in there to caveat that exercise of one person or group's rights must be balanced with the impact that exercise has on other people's/group's rights.
So, with that framework Jody, I would decide policies based on their measurable impacts:
 immigration issues should hinge on the overall loss of life, trauma to children and families and individuals, economic productivity of the system as a whole, and impacts on communities. America gets much more from the work-ethic and competition imported by immigrants that it loses from social service costs. Humanity suffers much more when America closes its borders and separates families. Immigrants typically have a stronger sense of community than multi-generational USA residents. Most people are open and welcoming when you present yourself in an open and welcoming manner. We are humans before we are members of any country.
gun issues should be decided based on the overall loss of life, trauma to children and families and individuals. Economic impacts of guns is a far distant consideration- whatever job creation and tax contributions of gun industry cannot be considered in light of the widespread carnage that results from easy access to guns. If you want to make the economic argument for guns, then how do you distinguish it from the economic benefits of weaponized pathogens, bio-warfare, personal nuclear weapons? So I discount the economic argument. I think it is messy to untangle individual's rights to protect themselves from the rights of others to live in a society that doesn't require a gun for self-protection. Should our policies just give up and accept omnipresent guns and hope for a sort of mutually assured destruction to avoid gun violence? That doesn't seem to work well among communities in conflict that use guns. I would prefer an approach with a long-term vision that outlawed many types of guns, to balance personal defense in the face of current threats, versus the movement of society toward an ideal in which guns were not required to defend against other as#@&%es with guns. And if we want to stick directly with quantifiable numbers and not consider the different ideals/feelings of different groups... just look at the number of accidental gun deaths and deaths in the course of intentional crimes by people with a gun, versus the number of lives saved through the benevolent presence of a gun. That is a pretty straight-forward metric and irrefutable. No hand-waving makes that go away. That metric would favor an outright ban of ALL forms of guns and penalties for gun manufacturers exceeding quotas ordered by military and authorized police. Even so, most people are still open to a compromise where individuals who are licensed/vetted can still use guns in certain settings (i.e. protection of private property, hunting in a rural environment, etc.)
So there ya go. Time for me to get ready for seeing Tommy and Kevin on the big screen!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 20, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
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If only one rape and murder of an innocent teen age girl by a CHP pig who was in Jody's club could be prevented
...
You know the drill
So, jody will you request a lie detector test and FBI investigation to clear your name of complicity.
Note only one conviction. Has nothing to do with the code, right?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 20, 2018 - 08:20pm PT
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What does the date have to do with it? The code persists today. Cops do not turn on one other except in the rarest of circumstances
The point is whether or not a single life could be saved isn't it?
I am not an old hippie, nor a hippie of any sort. You on the other hand talk like an old idiot.
Don't bother to call me, just try to stay out of trouble and try to get yourself isome help in reading comprehension.
Once you do get yourself a subscription to a newspaper and read about what goes on on the world.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 20, 2018 - 08:34pm PT
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They are certainly a necessity and they need to be very thoroughly trained and closely monitored.
I haven't developed a plan, but I would tentatively advocate doubling salaries, tripling training, and quadrupling review.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Sep 20, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
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Hey Nutagain!
I appreciate your thoughtful posts. Thanks for the efforts.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 21, 2018 - 06:21am PT
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Speaking of shitholes, the recent Frontline on Dayton, Ohio is interesting.
A Chinese company recently took over the shuttered GM plant. It pays 1/3 the wages that GM paid. He said he's taking advantage of the deindustrialization of America.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 21, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
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Sep 21, 2018 - 05:47am PT
zBrown, you are a desperate loser.
How so Judy? You are the one on the government's teat. I, on the other hand, have never been.
By your silence and inaction you were complicit.
https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTQ2NzEyNDczNDQ4MjI4NzI3/frank_serpico_photo_by_antonino_dambrosio.jpg
Police make up a peculiar subculture in society. More often than not they have their own moral code of behavior, an “us against them” attitude, enforced by a Blue Wall of Silence. It’s their version of the Mafia’s omerta. Speak out, and you’re no longer “one of us.” You’re one of “them.” And as James Fyfe, a nationally recognized expert on the use of force, wrote in his 1993 book about this issue, Above The Law, officers who break the code sometimes won’t be helped in emergency situations, as I wasn’t.te Here
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 21, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
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I can find you some references for for help with reading comprehension if you'd like
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 21, 2018 - 07:37pm PT
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Well Brennan you assert that you can read very well
So what we have here is a failure of comprehension
I can't help you with that
It's something you'll have to, like lil Eddie, take up with your parents
Hints
Jody claimed even one life was worthy if it was saved
Pig Peyer's inclinations and activities were known to others in the sty, not a word was said apparently
Did Jody know?
I have no idea
Would he have talked?
Again I don't know.
An estimator of his loquaciousness would be to check his record of speaking out about other transgressions of which he was undoubtedly aware
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 21, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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It was true in Serpico's day and is still true today
Do a little research
Write yourself a little script to scan the internet for ya'lls own edification
I'd do it, but you couldn't afford my rate and I've retired from that sort of thing in order to retroactively get on the dole, rest on my laurels and get myself a cool Broderick zcrawford cruiser
Oh yeah and get my license to kill renewed
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 21, 2018 - 07:51pm PT
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The eastside had this clown - chippy that would feel up women's breast under the guise of drug searching...He was also notorious for poaching people leaving Tom's place late at night in hopes of scoring a Dewey... He ended up getting t-boned on 395 and forced to retire...Karma...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 21, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
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Like I said Brennan take it up with your parents
Congress passed a law to restrain government actors. The courts should enforce it as written.
I’m going to start with a story that will break your heart. In the early morning hours of July 15, 2012, a young man named Andrew Scott was up late, home with his girlfriend. They were playing video games when they heard a loud pounding on the door. Alarmed, Scott grabbed a pistol and opened the door. He saw a man crouching outside in the darkness. Scott retreated, gun still at his side, pointing down to the ground.
Almost instantly, the crouching figure fired his own weapon. The encounter was over in two seconds. Scott lay on the ground, dead. The man who fired? He was a police officer. He was at the wrong house. Andrew Scott was a completely innocent man who had done nothing more than exercise his constitutional right to keep and bear arms in defense of his own home.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 22, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
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Brasil is on the verge off becoming one.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Sep 22, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
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Does Florida count?
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