Health Care changes

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Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Nov 15, 2013 - 10:16am PT
Shack, chew on this:
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act consists of a combination of measures to control healthcare costs, and an expansion of coverage through public and private insurance: broader Medicaid eligibility and Medicare coverage, and subsidized, regulated private insurance. An individual mandate coupled with subsidies for private insurance as a means for universal healthcare was considered the best way to win the support of the Senate because it had been included in prior bipartisan reform proposals. The concept goes back to at least 1989, when the conservative Heritage Foundation proposed an individual mandate as an alternative to single-payer health care. It was championed by many Republican politicians as a market-based approach to healthcare reform on the basis of individual responsibility and avoidance of free rider problems.

You ask why the Republicans did not vote for the healthcare act they championed? I can't figure that out either.

Why did Mitch McConnell introduce a bill to the senate to fix the debt ceiling crisis, and then filibuster his own bill?

Why did Ted Cruz filibuster for 21 hours, and then vote for the very bill he filibustered?

You tell me how and why they think, Shack. I'm interested.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Nov 15, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 15, 2013 - 02:00pm PT

This should be fun.



House Passes Bill to Reinstate Insurance Policies
The House voted to give insurers one more year to offer health plans due to be canceled under the new health law, with a clutch of Democrats backing a Republican plan in a rebuff to the White House. The vote came one day after President Obama said that he would let insurers re-enroll consumers for one year in plans that didn't meet the law's minimum standards.

The White House said that Mr. Obama would veto the Upton bill, saying it would allow insurers to sell substandard plans to new customers, omitting coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and charging women more than men.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
There's nothing "substandard" about most of our plans!

How is it "substandard" to be able to not pay for coverage you don't need?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 15, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
health care change occured when u were'nt allowed to smoke in the hospitals...1970's emergency featured a stressed character smok'n in the hospital. soo kool!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
Anything that places a demand on your labor for the benefit of another is not a right!

It is a transaction!

No one has a "right" to the product of another one's labor!

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Marie Antoinette, informed that the peasantry could no longer afford bread, is alleged to have responded, “Let them eat cake.” There is no evidence these words ever passed her lips, but certainly no one ever accused her of saying, “If you like your cake, you can keep your cake,” and then having to walk it back with “What we’re also discovering is that cake is complicated to buy.” That contribution to the annals of monarchical unworldliness had to await the reign of Queen Barry Antoinette, whose powdered wig seems to have slipped over his eyes.

Still, as historian Michael Beschloss pronounced the day after his election, he’s “probably the smartest guy ever to become president.” Naturally, Obama shares this assessment. As he assured us five years ago, “I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors.” Well, apart from his signature health-care policy. That’s a mystery to him. “I was not informed directly that the website would not be working,” he told us. The buck stops with something called “the executive branch,” which is apparently nothing to do with him.


http://m.nationalreview.com/article/364093/thus-spake-obama-mark-steyn
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
"Anything that places a demand on your labor for the benefit of another is not a right!"

That's just plain stoooopid.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
"....to not acknowledge that he is destroying our nation..."

By doing what? Attempting to fix the most significant domestic economic problem that faces all of us (including yourself)?

Your president's errors resulted in the loss of thousands of lives, plunged this country into a trillion dollar debt, and had the worst economic disaster since the Depression occur on his watch?

What is wrong with you people?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
The president promised to “fundamentally transform” America. Certainly, other men have succeeded in transforming settled, free societies: Pierre Trudeau did in Canada four decades ago, and so, in post-war Britain, did the less charismatic Clement Attlee. And, if you subscribe to their particular philosophy, their transformations were effected very efficiently. But Obama is an incompetent, so “fundamentally transformed” is a euphemism for “wrecked beyond repair.” As a socialist, he makes a good socialite.

But on he staggers, with a wave of his scepter, delaying this, staying that, exempting the other, according to his regal whim and internal polling. The omniscient beneficent Sovereign will now graciously “allow” us “folks” to keep all those junk plans from bad-apple insurers. Yet even the wisest King cannot reign forever, and what will happen decades down the road were someone less benign — perhaps even (shudder) a Republican — to ascend the throne and wield these mighty powers?

Hey, relax: If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. And your existing amendments. Well, most of them — except for the junk ones . . .
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Nov 15, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
Norton, that list you posted is full of bad links, and the list is a total joke.
Most of the "lies" are completely ridiculous..."Liar Romney claims he is a regular guy" HAHAHA!

To bad you can't accept that Romney was right...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Jonnnyyyzzz

Trad climber
San Diego,CA
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
November 15, 2013 3:30 PM
Thus Spake Obama
The incompetence of our neo-monarchy
By Mark Steyn


It is a condition of my admission to this great land that I am not allowed to foment the overthrow of the United States government. Oh, I signed it airily enough, but you’d be surprised, as the years go by, how often the urge to foment starts to rise in one’s gullet. Fortunately, at least as far as constitutional government goes, the president of the United States is doing a grand job of overthrowing it all by himself.

On Thursday, he passed a new law at a press conference. George III never did that. But, having ordered America’s insurance companies to comply with Obamacare, the president announced that he is now ordering them not to comply with Obamacare. The legislative branch (as it’s still quaintly known) passed a law purporting to grandfather your existing health plan. The regulatory bureaucracy then interpreted the law so as to un-grandfather your health plan. So His Most Excellent Majesty has commanded that your health plan be de-un-grandfathered. That seems likely to work. The insurance industry had three years to prepare for the introduction of Obamacare. Now the King has given them six weeks to de-introduce Obamacare.


“I wonder if he has the legal authority to do this,” mused former Vermont governor Howard Dean. But he’s obviously some kind of right-wing wacko. Later that day, anxious to help him out, Congress offered to “pass” a “law” allowing people to keep their health plans. The same president who had unilaterally commanded that people be allowed to keep their health plans indignantly threatened to veto any such law to that effect: It only counts if he does it — geddit? As his court eunuchs at the Associated Press obligingly put it: “Obama Will Allow Old Plans.” It’s Barry’s world; we just live in it.

The reason for the benign Sovereign’s exercise of the Royal Prerogative is that millions of his subjects — or “folks,” as he prefers to call us, no fewer than 27 times during his press conference — have had their lives upended by Obamacare. Your traditional hard-core statist, surveying the mountain of human wreckage he has wrought, usually says, “Well, you can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.” But Obama is the first to order that his omelet be unscrambled and the eggs put back in their original shells. Is this even doable? No. That’s the point. When it doesn’t work, he’ll be able to give another press conference blaming the insurance companies, or the state commissioners, or George W. Bush . . .

The most telling line, the one that encapsulates the gulf between the boundless fantasies of the faculty-lounge utopian and the messiness of reality, was this: “What we’re also discovering is that insurance is complicated to buy.” Gee, thanks for sharing, genius. Maybe you should have thought of that before you governmentalized one-sixth of the economy. By “we,” the president means “I.” Out here in the ruder provinces of his decrepit realm, we “folks” are well aware of how complicated insurance is. What isn’t complicated in the Sultanate of Sclerosis? But, as with so many other things, Obama always gives the vague impression that routine features of humdrum human existence are entirely alien to him. Marie Antoinette, informed that the peasantry could no longer afford bread, is alleged to have responded, “Let them eat cake.” There is no evidence these words ever passed her lips, but certainly no one ever accused her of saying, “If you like your cake, you can keep your cake,” and then having to walk it back with “What we’re also discovering is that cake is complicated to buy.” That contribution to the annals of monarchical unworldliness had to await the reign of Queen Barry Antoinette, whose powdered wig seems to have slipped over his eyes.

Still, as historian Michael Beschloss pronounced the day after his election, he’s “probably the smartest guy ever to become president.” Naturally, Obama shares this assessment. As he assured us five years ago, “I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors.” Well, apart from his signature health-care policy. That’s a mystery to him. “I was not informed directly that the website would not be working,” he told us. The buck stops with something called “the executive branch,” which is apparently nothing to do with him. As evidence that he was entirely out of the loop, he offered this:

Had I been I informed, I wouldn’t be going out saying, “Boy, this is going to be great.” You know, I’m accused of a lot of things, but I don’t think I’m stupid enough to go around saying, “This is going to be like shopping on Amazon or Travelocity,” a week before the website opens, if I thought that it wasn’t going to work.

Ooooo-kay. So, if I follow correctly, the smartest president ever is not smart enough to ensure that his website works; he’s not smart enough to inquire of others as to whether his website works; he’s not smart enough to check that his website works before he goes out and tells people what a great website experience they’re in for. But he is smart enough to know that he’s not stupid enough to go around bragging about how well it works if he’d already been informed that it doesn’t work. So he’s smart enough to know that if he’d known what he didn’t know he’d know enough not to let it be known that he knew nothing. The country’s in the very best of hands.

Michael Beschloss is right: This is what it means to be smart in a neo-monarchical America. Obama spake, and it shall be so. And, if it turns out not to be so, why pick on him? He talks a good Royal Proclamation; why get hung up on details?

Until October 1, Obama had never done anything — not run a gas station, or a doughnut stand — other than let himself be wafted onward and upward to the next do-nothing gig. Even in his first term, he didn’t really do: Starting with the 2009 trillion-dollar stimulus, he ran a money-no-object government that was all money and no objects; he spent and spent, and left no trace. Some things he massively expanded (food stamps, Social Security disability) and other things he massively diminished (effective foreign policy), but all were, so to speak, preexisting conditions. Obamacare is the first thing Obama has actually done, and, if you’re the person it’s being done to, it’s not pretty.

The president promised to “fundamentally transform” America. Certainly, other men have succeeded in transforming settled, free societies: Pierre Trudeau did in Canada four decades ago, and so, in post-war Britain, did the less charismatic Clement Attlee. And, if you subscribe to their particular philosophy, their transformations were effected very efficiently. But Obama is an incompetent, so “fundamentally transformed” is a euphemism for “wrecked beyond repair.” As a socialist, he makes a good socialite.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Freddie Mercury has joined us.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:17pm PT
“I wonder if he has the legal authority to do this,” mused former Vermont governor Howard Dean. But he’s obviously some kind of right-wing wacko. Later that day, anxious to help him out, Congress offered to “pass” a “law” allowing people to keep their health plans. The same president who had unilaterally commanded that people be allowed to keep their health plans indignantly threatened to veto any such law to that effect: It only counts if he does it — geddit? As his court eunuchs at the Associated Press obligingly put it: “Obama Will Allow Old Plans.” It’s Barry’s world; we just live in it.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
I just read a bunch of Jhedges's posts and I was left with one question...

What are you like 12 years old? seriously.

You are almost as bad as Dr. F. who is a full blown dyed in the wool Kool-aid drinker. I think the DNC probably emails him daily disinformation.
You guys are so partisan it's like some crazy sports fan. You've chosen your team and no matter how bad they screw up, no matter how many lies they feed you, you will never admit that they are wrong or how bad they suck.

Too bad you can't look objectively at issues.
Unfortunately it will never happen if your sources of information are partisan blogs like you linked to or Wikipedia, which is user edited, contains lots of opinion and should not be trusted as a sole source of facts.

Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 15, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
^^^^ I think it is CTE. Too many concussions from banging head on wall???
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Nov 16, 2013 - 12:24am PT
Where do you come up with this crap?
You are so misinformed, I'll bet you probably think Che Guevara was cool.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 16, 2013 - 01:31am PT
"...likely none of the better ideas would have ever passed."

abrams

Sport climber
Nov 16, 2013 - 01:43am PT
what you do when your premiums and co-pay triple

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