Chipping culprit filmed in NY

The rest of the routes have holds that have been drilled, chopped, hammered or chiseled.

Dingus, if you do come to the gunks, as long as you don't chip and bolt your way around we'll get along just fine. In turn, when we gunkies come to WY, we promise not to chop bolts everywhere we go.

RGold “Mostly, Donald's points are moot, even when they are marginally coherent. (For an example of the more pervasive incoherence, he singles Bragg and Barber out for hypocrisy even though neither of them has said a word about the current situation.)”

Moot, out of context.

From Don: “My point is that the NY Shawangunks climbing community started out with Henry Barber and John Bragg [2. See Yankee Rock and Ice] who developed higher standards than anywhere else on the planet, and then dropped the ball when Brag left…”

RGold “And his claims are moot even if you buy his tarring … two of Gunks climbers as hypocritical for not writing magazine articles condemning the chipping on Twilight Zone.”

Moot

From Don: “My point is that the NY Shawangunks climbing community started out with Henry Barber and John Bragg [2. See Yankee Rock and Ice] who developed higher standards than anywhere else on the planet, and then dropped the ball when Brag left…”

RGold “And his claims are moot even if you buy his tarring of a generation … as hypocritical for not writing magazine articles condemning the chipping on Twilight Zone. (Donald participates in the hypocrisy he condemns by not having written such articles himself.)”

Moot

From Don: My being part of the generation does not nullify the argument. Furthermore, this is something that would only work if it was done by the collegium.

RGold “At this point, The French Connection activities are nearly thirty year-old local news. Most of today's climbers know nothing about it, and wouldn't know anything about it even if some article had appeared in a magazine that would now probably be defunct.”

Moot

From Don. OK, so then it’s 30 years of chipping between now and then. Great job.

RGold “At this point, The French Connection activities are nearly thirty year-old local news.”
From Don: There was a time when the Gunks set the stage for higher ethics [See Yankee Rock and Ice.], those days are long gone, you have allowed them to slip through your fingers.

RGold: “Donald wants his perceived hypocrisy of the elders”

Moot

From Don: You have yet to disprove the hypocrisy. But keep trying, maybe you can figure something out eventually.

RGold “Donald wants his perceived hypocrisy of the elders to be visited on subsequent generations who know nothing about all of this”

Moot

From Don: First, you just proved my point. If there were any real ethics around after Bragg left subsequent generations WOULD know everything about this. You guys went so far as to make a religion out of it! When did you forget what it was like back then, when you ostracized particular climbers who you did not agree with? Second, it would not be hypocritical if they did know about it.

RGold “… and he wants to use this perception to disqualify the genuineness of everyone's views on the current chipping situation.”

Moot

From Don: No, what I implied is that “the genuineness of everyone's views” should be tempered with the past, to understand how we got here. It has never been my intention to “disqualify the genuineness of everyone's views on the current chipping situation”. Please don’t put words in my mouth.


RGOLD “Not only is this is nonsense, it is an unfortunate distraction from the real issues. “

Moot

From Don: The real issue is the decline of ethics in the climbing community where they cease to function to bring about real preservation. Your point is there has been no decline in ethics. How are you going to prove that?

WTF and Dingus have shown me the light. I am no longer against chipping and it is wrong for me to speak out against chipping. In fact, it really is the only way for our sport to progress.

This opens up a whole new world for me around Tahoe. Thanks!

But STFU we are tired of your irrelevancy.

I've copied this and quoted it because Donald has a habit of going back and editing and deleting posts, so that responses to his posts seem like non-sequiturs.

This last post of his does a nice job of illustrating what many of us already know. Donald's mind is fragmented and at least some of the fragments have left for parts unknown.