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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 23, 2012 - 07:34pm PT
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Holy frig, what a great thread. Thanks for the update, Cedar!
I am amazed that anyone could equate bolts on the Nose and Salathe Wall on El Capitan - which were drilled by hand to cross blank featureless sections of rock not otherwise climbable, to those drilled by Maestri on Cerro Torre - drilled with a power tool apparently indiscriminately and often next to usable cracks. To do so undermines both your credibility and your argument.
Congrats to Lama .... um, I think. [See YoungGun's post below] What about all the bolts he drilled last year? Did he use those? Have they been removed yet?
I'm still torn about my feelings over this. It is rare that I feel so ethically challenged, as I really hate bolts. I think it was bad form for these two non-locals to have taken this into their own hands. I wouldn't be heartbroken if "legit" bolts of Maestri's were replaced [for example, those required to cross blank rock] but not "stupid" bolts [for example, those next to cracks]. I am inclined to agree with Cedar's prophecy that the route will be re-established.
Then again, I'm not exactly upset that such an amazing peak as Cerro Torre no longer has an "easy way up", as if a route that shut Steve Schneider down four times could ever be considered "easy".
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YoungGun
climber
North
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Jan 23, 2012 - 07:34pm PT
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So I guess by "without adding any bolts" he means "if you don't include the 60 I already added"?!?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 23, 2012 - 07:36pm PT
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It sounds like Jason and Hayden didn't remove the compressor. Again, detailed information as to who did what is still in short supply.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Jan 23, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
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Recall that Schneider climbed the first one day solo ascent of the Nose--it's not the difficulty that has shut down Steve on Cerro Torre.
But his story is not uncommon--the year I climbed it with Conrad, there were some Brits who were in situ for several months during their fourth unsuccessful trip to Patagonia. After several attempts on the Compressor Route, they left a week before the weather window opened that year!
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jan 23, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
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So I guess by "without adding any bolts" he means "if you don't include the 60 I already added"?!?
devils in the detials, it will be interesting to find out. seems like too many soundbites coming out of all of this and i bet when we hear more from all involved it wont be any prettier...
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Gene
climber
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Jan 23, 2012 - 07:46pm PT
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It appears that the chopping on the Maestri line doesn't matter anymore, right?
Can't wait to see what tomorrow brings. Anyone see Alex lately?
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nopantsben
climber
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Jan 23, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
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none of the bolts that the film team placed 2 years ago were used by Lama, because they weren't place to protect the climbing.
it was not 60 bolts either, tho that's a detail.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 23, 2012 - 08:12pm PT
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Seems kind of quiet. Everyone in Italy is sleeping it off right now.
I visited Italy once. Shipley and I were drunk off of our asses and hunkered down next to a hut once. Dude came out and told us that it was illegal to bivy within a hundred meters of a hut. We weren't sleeping. Just waiting for our heads to clear before blasting off. We were too poor for huts.
We hid in the back, but were promptly caught and ordered inside for free.
Nice people, and from what I saw, it was very beautiful. We could only see about 20 feet, though.
No lie. Midnight in Italy. Like an hour or something until we sobered up.
I'm too old and fat to have much of an opinion on this, but if this had happened twenty years ago I would have said,
"Damnit! I'll NEVER be able to do Cerro Torre now!!"
Also, don't ever buy Pizza in France.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 23, 2012 - 08:37pm PT
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WOW!
Pass the popcorn please.
Heard from my guide/friend in Bariloche (Patagonia).
He and the locals seem somewhat offended at the Northamericanos chopping bolts in Patagonia.
Being offended makes sense to me.
Do batter-fried legless voles taste yummy?
Or are they best driven into boltless holes?
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 23, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
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You have to kind of be in your rocking chair to truly appreciate the stink over what Maestri did. Cerro Torre was the plumb of the world.
The doubt over Maestri's first ascent with Egger was a cloud, of course. At that time, Cerro Torre was the most unreal mountain on the planet. So when he put in all of those bolts, it seemed not only odd, but downright blasphemous.
Oddly, it ended up being the most popular route on the mountain. You could spend season after season down there trying to put something new up. The compressor route could fit into one of the short weather windows, and you could climb the great Cerro Torre, to boot. I remember talking to Walt about it. He was stoked when he got back.
Never been there, but I have seen pictures. Cerro Torre might be the most beautiful and hairball looking peak on Earth.
I dunno why the Italians are so territorial about this. They did the first ascent via the Ferrari route. I saw a picture of Hayden Kennedy on that route, and with all of the bizarre ice, it looked like some kind of wonderland on that side. Incredibly beautiful. The caption said that they couldn't do the mushroom and had to bail below the summit.
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fsck
climber
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Jan 23, 2012 - 09:34pm PT
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hey coz tell us one
more time how bad ass you are
never gets old, bro
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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Jan 23, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
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Coz has a good point
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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Jan 23, 2012 - 09:46pm PT
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Like whatever. All I know is that every time I think of those guys (who I wouldn’t know from Adam) climbing that thing and then chopping that bonfire of vanity, delusion, and presumption on the way down: I smile.
I got nothing much to add I suppose the critic in me see it as a little post modern deconstruction laying bare the historic fetishes we attach to our lives and letting a new chapter of the tale of now unfold.
Some confusion about what ethnic label to place on the duo; I’d opt for the old California word Anglo given the unfortunate circumstance that one is Canadian.
BTW I thought the official language of EU countries was now German; so what gives with the Italian? If Europeans want to come over to American and start chopping routes (after permission from Brussels and Monti of course) that would make me smile too and hell would freeze over and ST would be ablaze.
The resurrection of the impossible for a lot of people, indeed; it will probably all end in sorrow and more high tensile steel; but for now I’m still smiling.
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Jan 23, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
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how many of the 101 bolts were Cesare Maestri?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 23, 2012 - 09:51pm PT
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Scott, the original Grand Wall bolt ladder, from the top of the Flake to the base of the Split Pillar, is hardly a secret. To quote the official rock climbing strategy for the park:
Three features which are of historical value to the climbing community are the small rock sculpture near the Grand Wall Trail, the original Baldwin/Cooper bolt ladder on the Grand Wall route and the Baldwin plaque at the top of the Apron.
Climbers and other users will be encouraged to protect the rock sculpture and the Baldwin/Cooper bolt ladder.
The bolt ladder is about 100 m long, and was placed by Jim Baldwin and Ed Cooper in spring 1961. It was the only way for them to get to the base of the Pillar, given the techniques and knowledge of the time. (What later became Mercy Me isn't obvious.) Sadly, the front face of the Chief lacks continuous crack lines, with even fewer than say those on the Nose. Every route on it has a substantial number of bolts, and high bolts/metre ratio.
I believe that some of the bolts on the ladder have been removed or shifted, as the area is now crossed by later lines. But we like it just as it is.
The only route on the Grand Wall (area) with a significantly fewer number of bolts was University Wall, done by Hamie and Tricouni, amongst others. IIRC they used only a dozen or so total, on a largely separate line - it only joined Grand Wall for the last few pitches in the Roman Chimneys. Not many lines from Dance Platform/Bellygood up. University Wall was also the first route on the Grand Wall to be done free.
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bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
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Jan 23, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
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You are free to chop as you wish Coz ... go for it. Perhaps you should start with chopping the bolt ladder on Perry's Lieback on Grandwall - or did you clip those for the free ascent ? Pesky details Eh ?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 23, 2012 - 10:02pm PT
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Freeway is usually considered part of the Western Dihedrals, and indeed is on the left side of Tantalus Wall.
Edit: The Grand Wall bolt ladder may have been the longest bolt ladder in the world, until Maestri came along. (OK, it's maybe 5% pins in flakes and stuff - close enough.) And Maestri had to use a motorized drill to top it - although he'd probably never heard of Squamish then.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jan 23, 2012 - 10:04pm PT
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Should we ever forget the fabulous Italian soccer players who get brushed on the thigh, nose dive to the turf and proceed to log roll and wail as if gut shot with a .12 gauge shotgun. It's great theater.
What's more, the original compressor route was always considered an abomination by most all serious rock climbers, it just so happened to go up one of the greatest of all rock formations. The irony is that removing the rote is now considered by some to be the greater crime than CM's original effort, shrouded as it was (as was the previous Egger debacle) in blarney and misinformation.
This whole saga is so convoluted and plain strange there might never be any true sorting out.
JL
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 23, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
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You have to kind of be in your rocking chair to truly appreciate the stink over what Maestri did. Cerro Torre was the plumb of the world.
The doubt over Maestri's first ascent with Egger was a cloud, of course. At that time, Cerro Torre was the most unreal mountain on the planet. So when he put in all of those bolts, it seemed not only odd, but downright blasphemous.
That's how I saw it and still do.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 23, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
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Largo mentions Italian football players, and their theatrics. Unfortunately common to most football nations, not just the Italians.
And if we're talking about Italian national character, let's not forget that Walter Bonatti was active at about the same time as Maestri, and that Messner (from south Tirol) came along not long afterward. And Ferrari and the Lecco Spiders (Rangni di Lecco), who made the first ascent of Cerro Torre in 1974.
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