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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Hey, Rick-A,
your posts are incisive and clear, the best on this thread. They cut right through the fluff and get to the heart of the problems with CAI.
If only Mortenson had employed folks with such clear-headed vision to run his organization once it grew larger than a one-man show.....
Thanks!
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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You're fine with the $685 raised by the school children being used to pay for the Learjet? Again, I think the approach is overly simplistic. If he raised $30K at the film festival that perhaps he would have been unable to attend if not for the private jet then, yes, it was money well spent. Even if we incorporate the poor, well intended schoolkid example, he's still netting over $14K. I'd say that's a pretty good return for $685 or whatever it was.
It's clear that you're suggesting that a public jet could have served the same purpose but we don't have facts to support either the private or public jet scenario. However, you're arriving at conclusions as if you did.
Again, the guy could be a lazy slob who wanted the Lear jet lifestyle. I don't have enough facts to fully support that belief. Neither does anyone else at this point, so let's not pretend we do. Innuendo is not proof.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Name me one place in N America you can't get to in a day using commercial
flights and a rental car.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Well, that's true Reilly. But keep in mind he's probably leaving from Afghanistan, possibly at the last minute and possible security issues when leaving the airport, which could cause delays. Even if you take a commerical flight from, say Kathmandu, where you're not going to have any security issues, you still have to overnight in either Hong Kong or Bangkok before catching the second leg of your flight to the U.S.
Also, Rick A indicated that the flight was for GM and his retinue. Let's say that's 5 people. At $1,500-2,000 per ticket, you're still looking at spending close to two-thirds of what the private jet cost, and that's not including the cost of the overnight stay. It's a possible issue for concern, but compared to the $7 m. of unreported benefits that's being looked at, it's not a very strong argument to hang your hat on, especially when you don't know all the facts.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I didn't realize the flight was from Afghanistan. If that is the case no
private jet is gonna haul yer crew out of there for less than $50K, guaranteed.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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It might not be, but that's clearly where the guy spent a lot of his time. Rick didn't say where he traveled from, so it might, might not be. If he took a jet from Montana, that'd be really wasteful. Absolutely no argument there.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Fat Dad, here's from Krakauer's, "Three Cups of Deceit", p. 40:
(edit) - more info that was not explicitly stated...
CAI has routinely paid for extravagances such as a
four-day excursion by Mortenson to the Telluride Mountain
Film Festival in May 2010, where he was a featured speaker.
A Learjet was chartered to fly Mortenson, his wife and children,
and four other individuals from Montana to Colorado
and back. CAI rented multiple residences in Telluride to
house the entourage. Lavish meals were billed to the foundation.
The jet charter alone cost CAI more than $15,000. and
Mortenson’s Pennies for Peace program (P4P) is a commendable
cultural studies course that also happens to function
as a phenomenally effective marketing-and-fundraising
scheme for CAI. By pitching P4P directly to kids, their
teachers, and school administrators, Mortenson has induced
nearly three thousand schools in the United States and
Canada to make P4P part of their standard K–12 curriculum.
Hundreds of thousands of children have contributed their
lunch money in response to P4P fundraising appeals. “The
Pennies for Peace money, every single penny, we put it very
quickly to use over in Pakistan and Afghanistan,” Mortenson
has assured these students and their parents. “All of the
money is used for supplies, for books…. Everything is used
to help the kids out.”6 In 2009, schoolchildren donated $1.7
million to Pennies for Peace. But CAI’s total 2009 outlay
for the things P4P is supposed to pay for—teachers’ salaries,
student scholarships, school supplies, basic operating expenses—
amounted to a paltry $612,000. By comparison, in 2009
CAI spent more than $1 million to promote sales of Three
Cups of Tea and Stones into Schools, and another $1.4 million to
fly Mortenson around in chartered jets. Donors unknowingly
picked up the tab for all of it.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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The amount Mortenson had CAI spend on his Learjet ride was $15,000, not $685.
Krakauer reports in Three Cups of Deceit that Mortenson flew by Learjet with his entourage to a speaking engagement at the Telluride Mountain Film Festival in May, 2010, at a cost of $15,000 for the jet alone. The $15,000 was billed to CAI, according to Krakauer's research.
The $685 was just the amount raised a penny at at time by children in one school district.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Like I said:
If he took a jet from Montana, that'd be really wasteful. Absolutely no argument there. I'm not sure if that information was presented in some posts prior to Rick A's, but Rick did not include that information in his.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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The jabs about the book being truthful or not, is just lame, and weak sauce, if JK wants to research facts, should we start with his books?
Hopefully, scrupulous investigative journalists will publish an objective scrutiny of Mortensen's claims.
False or half-substantiated allegations of deceit usually go unpunished regardless of moral authority of accusers...(and courts won't throw out cases just because the plaintiff has a bad record, him or herself)
A skillful writer can turn public fear and outrage into personal power and capital. And JK threads, on this forum, manifest how quickly the public forgives (or ignores) a popular writer's slants and prevarications.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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What's with all the anti-female adjectives used here gentlemen posters?
Sullly, I'm not sure what you are talking about, but is this related to your penchant to insult women you don't like by calling them men? You think that's not prejudiced, not to mention immature? Also, why do you delete so many of your posts?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Sully, RickA didn't diss a mormon woman.
one of the ironies of this thread, which deals with everything from accusations of financial fraud to serious lying to forgivable cv and expense account puffery, is that not all of the avatars posting here are what they claim to be.
this is a really tragic case that is going to have unfortunate repercussions in all sorts of places. honestly, one of the things that makes me most unhappy about this debacle is the damage it has already done to fundraising for NPOs in this and related areas.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Kerwin nails it. Whatever actually happened, unless Mortenton is fully exonerated (which seems unlikely), CAI is badly if not fatally damaged. That's one thing. But the damage to other non-profits/charities is worse. They live on their reputations. The headlines that would go with any charges would adversely affect other organizations, perhaps particularly those that are climbing-oriented, or have a climber presence. The news media, governments, and publics tend to tar with a wide brush.
Looking at it another way, the Hillary Foundation has been doing good works in Nepal for the last 50 years, trading largely on the reputation of its founder. It has an impeccable reputation, and no one ever suggested the slightest impropriety by those involved. The CAI has in some ways been imitative of the Hillary Foundation, with a somewhat parallel role in northern Pakistan and Afghanistan. Will Mortenson's and the CAI's problems rebound on the Hillary Foundation?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Locker told T*R that LEB was a creation of a few guys on the site who share a password.
That was a joke! You didn't believe that, did you?
I don't like how Rick is dismissing a Mormon woman's view here or how (a few pages back) a male poster is referring to a woman who disagrees with JK as a "ditz."
I missed that. Thanks. I better understand your comment now.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Coz-Love you too brother, but if you disagree with me:
FYYFFF!
I kid; just kidding! Seriously, I would urge you to read Three Cups of Deceit and then see if you still want to reserve judgment. It is a damning document and CAI has not effectively challenged the key facts set out in it. For example, CAI admits that it paid Mortenson's private jet travel expenses out of donated money and has never challenged, or responded to, the account in TCD of how CAI's former Chief Financial Officer concluded that statements she had been asked to make in an annual report were fraudulent.
Anders-You mentioned that a forensic audit would be helpful. One of the telling arguments against CAI is that it has had only one audited financial statement in its 13-year existence. You and I both know of non-profits run on a shoestring which have spent the necessary money with accountants to get an audited financial statement every single year of their existence. When I was helping to manage a start-up non-profit, the very first board of directors wanted one as soon as possible. Such an audit is essential to show contributors that you are careful with their money and therefore deserve more of it. This lack of audited financial statements in a non-profit that has taken in $60,000,000 in contributor's cash is remarkable to me. CAI can certainly afford it, so the leadership must have purposefully decided to not produce them for 12 out of 13 years. Why?
Jennie - There you go again! I would be happy to discuss what facts you think JK got wrong in any of his books and why this leads you to distrust the facts presented in TCD. But when you imply that Krakauer is dimwitted, unscrupulous, a liar, immoral, and motivated only by a quest for power and capital, all without providing any examples, factual support or explanation, this is "lame and pretty weak sauce," as Coz puts it. Most importantly, you are wrong and your characterization of him could not be further from the truth.
Sully- If you go back earlier in this thread, you will see that my initial, critical comments about Snowleopard's posts assumed, incorrectly, that Snowleopard was a man. So, just like with Jennie, I am responding to the statements of posters, not whether the poster appears to be male or female, and regardless of religion. Krakauer is a public figure and it goes with the territory that he will be attacked for putting forth his vigorous opinions. But I get irritated when posters on this forum, whether male or female, disagree with someone else and resort to name calling instead of arguing the merits of the issue. It's not civil and it's not an effective argument.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I didn't call her a ditz for disagreeing with JK.
Read the "poem".
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Rick
Thank you again for your clear headed analysis. At first I didn't want to
believe what Krakauer had to say about Mortenson. I had donated a considerable amount of money to CAI, and believed in its mission.
But when people like Tom Hornbein, who had been on the CAI board, resigned due to lack of honesty, I had to open my eyes. My aunt also had sent me
a newsletter from one of the top philanthropic raters in the country, and
its analysis of CAI was damning.
It's sad, but unfortunately, some people game the system. Thanks for setting me straight.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Saying GM "gamed" the system is a bit much.
I think he just succumbed to human weakness.
It probably started with a small lie that seemed to work.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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I agree, Ron.
Krakauer points out the following statement in TCD:
"[T]he duties of speaking, promoting and fund-raising into which I have been thrust...have often made me feel like a man caught in the act of conducting an illicit affair with the dark side of his own personality."
Who said it? Greg Mortenson in his book, Stones into Schools.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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What happened may be a classic example of what is sometimes called founder's syndrome. That is, a non-profit/charity is founded to advance some good purpose. Whether due to timing and zeitgeist, the founder's charisma, or other reasons, it quickly succeeds. (Of course, most don't...) The growth rate is amazing, and places huge stresses on the organization. In fact, there often is no organization - it's still just the founder. Moving past that stage, to reasonably professional management and finances, is a big step. Many founders don't like to cede control, or indeed acknowledge that they need to, nor do they necessarily have all the skills and experience that are needed to manage a non-profit.
In such cases, often the founder is someone who didn't have much in the way of career, skills, or income beforehand, and a few even buy into the "entrepreneur" myth.
The road to hell, as my father (a farm boy from the prairies) so cheerfully puts it, is paved with good intentions.
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