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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Mar 15, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
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It's all that worthless crap everyone made to plug in to the box.
Not a bad point, Werner. I wonder how many enviro-Nazis and Greenies get that?
I drive a truck but still don't own a cell-phone...or a laptop, or an Ipad, or an Iwhatever....
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake
FUKUSHIMA, Japan – Japan suspended operations to prevent a stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous for workers to remain at the facility.
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said work on dousing reactors with water was disrupted by the need to withdraw.
This sounds bad.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:29pm PT
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Oh. So awful for these poor people. Such difficulty on top of such loss and suffering.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:33pm PT
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whoever the fuk the engineering morons are that designed a seaside nuke plant to be earth quake proof but neglected to protect the backup cooling systems and generators from associated tsunami damage should immediately be choppered onto the site now to man the firehoses until they fukkin croak from radiation over dose.
Right about now the US Navy needs to take over damage control because the incompetence displayed by this private power company and the Japanese government is verging on genocidal
Somebody please wake up Fleet Commander Do Nothing and get it done already
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
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^ That kind of rant is not really helpful, though I know you are upset and venting frustration.
We could easily see just as catastrohic results(though obviously not with the same details) right here in our country. There but for the grace....
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
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There is no taking over. A zirconian-cladding-fire is
self sustaining
and cannot be put out if in the #4 spent fuel pool, until equilibrium is reached.
Like 4th July sparklers will burn until they are consumed, so will
those spent fuel bundles. The gamma ray flux must be lethal as they would
not have evacuated otherwise.
These oxidation reactions [with a loss of coolant] can become locally
self-sustaining … at high temperatures (i.e., about a factor of 10 higher
than the boiling point of water) if a supply of oxygen and/or steam is
available to sustain the reactions…. The result could be a runaway
oxidation reaction — referred to in this report as a zirconium cladding fire
— that proceeds as a burn front (e.g., as seen in a forest fire or a
fireworks sparkler) along the axis of the fuel rod toward the source of
oxidant (i.e., air or steam)….
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/15/why-fukushimas-spent-fuel-rods-will-continue-to-catch-fire/
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:51pm PT
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i have four generations of family who worked at Hanford, including me. One of my uncles was one of the first people on site. Another uncle was chief engineer and supervised designing the waste storage tanks and the PU processing plants and was later IC of the cleanup efforts. His eldest son is a submarine admiral and nuclear engine expert. Another of his sons is still a senior environmental cleanup engineer out there. I was a co-lead on a joint DOE/EPA project to evaluate sample management in all the DOE national labs, particularly at the Hanford tank farm.. At least we don't anymore need to worry about tank 101SY, which could have been as bad as Kryushtym, i.e. worse than Chernoble, and could have made most of Idaho and Utah uninhabitable.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:56pm PT
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in a couple days this problem will be drifting into your country so you better hope one of your generals has a big enough nutsack to step forward now and take action instead of waiting for your dickhead president to come up with a another useless speech as another inept function of Obamas yet again chronic inability to rise to the occasion
Chernoble on steroids next: earthquake and Tsumani was just the opening act. Millions of people are going to die now. this sh#t is going to blow across the pacific in a couple days. There must be half a million dead already judging by the Sattelite photos of the coastline
edit: RANT OFF
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Brandon Lampley
Mountain climber
Boulder, CO
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:05am PT
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Where's rrrADAM now? Sure seems like we are at worst case senario for the used fuel pool, and with everyone evacuated, likely complete meltdowns in some of the reactors. Sounds like one breached already. I reckon there would be plenty of folks willing to make the sacrifice if there was something to be done. Must be no mitigation options left. At least the wind is blowing out to sea.
Measureable radiation likely all across the pacific now? depending on how the wind blows. Local area fcked for real now. No safe place to stage ships anywhere nearby offshore now?
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:14am PT
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The quake SW of Tokyo could be pretty bad news. The big one that Tokyo had been bracing for is actually on the plate boundary SW of the city, not the plate boundary that produced the 9.0 last week. Maybe the 9.0 released pressure on "the big one's" plate boundary, but maybe it did the opposite. - Sven Grenander JPL
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:16am PT
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bmacd - I know(drift over). But I can't imagine what makes anyone here in the US military capable of doing more than the Japanese have been doing.
Some have reported they downplayed the level of seriousness; Reading the posts, news articles(and even considering those from people saying 'not so bad") my fear was that it was much more out of control that the experts were saying. Just my feeling, of course. But it is a common governmental strategy, when the sh#t is really hitting it, to try to avert panic. Sad as that may be(we'd all prefer honesty, I believe, if we were in such situations), I can see why the tactic is employed.
But I have to believe that those involved in the emergency response, including government officials, were aware of the seriousness and potential developments.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:18am PT
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Aliester: That's a great quote. As big a dipstick as McCain is though, he got one thing correct: the U.S. Navy has gotten nuclear right.
Ask yourself why the Navy hasn't had a nuclear accident in 50 years. It's because in doing nuclear energy the Navy's only priority is safety. Not profit.
Like any person with half a wit would trust corporate America to put safety ahead of profit.
"Drill, baby drill..."
Oh. That's last year's disaster. F*%king Republican morons.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:20am PT
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my personal experience indicates that published disaster death tolls are less than one tenth of actual
and by the time they publish evacuation notices; you should be hearing about them from a distance
i rode out the tsunami five miles out to sea
from there I heard about the county evacuation orders
i returned to the harbor towing three big boats that had been washed out to sea as a result of the tsunami
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:31am PT
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Officials just announced that radiation levels had gone back down and they put the workers back in.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:42am PT
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Build a giant berm around the entire site and flood it then collapse the raised storage rod tanks into the water below submerging the rods quenches their fire ?????
Obviously the hydrogen which caused the explosions has been coming from these spent rods oxidising all along. I suppose we've got two days before fallout hits western north america ??
I'm going to try and store as much clean water out of the delivery system for starters and tarp over stuff I dont want nuke fallout getting directly onto ??? What action are other folks thinking of - obviously I'm fully tweaked up here. What is that new humanoid robot doing up in the space station when he's needed in japan
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Mar 16, 2011 - 01:00am PT
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Ed - hear that. Tweaked and its thousands of miles away. Wonder if we'll be
drinking Caesium-137 atoms out of our Sierra streams this summer?
The blue glow in the spent pools is freaky.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Mar 16, 2011 - 01:32am PT
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http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/energy/nuclear/the-spent-fuel-danger-in-japans-nuclear-disaster?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IeeeSpectrum+%28IEEE+Spectrum%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view
Fortunately, the total amount of spent fuel on-site in the Japanese plants is relatively small explains, Edwin Lyman, a physicist in the UCS Global Security Program. Before Friday's disasters, Japan had routinely transported some of the spent fuel to other parts of the country and other countries entirely, such as the United Kingdom and France, for processing. "The good news, if there is any, is that, from the numbers I've seen, the inventory of spent fuel in these pools was relatively small and they were well below capacity," Lyman says.
http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2011/03/15/why-fukushimas-spent-fuel-rods-will-continue-to-catch-fire/ - corniss choppers link is the best
sorry folks I've lost it completely, my apologies I'll STFU now - here is hoping that people in the Carrier group off shore have the technology, experience and know how to do what has to be done
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuclear/nuclear-reactor-renaissance/1
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