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craig mo
Trad climber
L.A. Ca.
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Dec 13, 2010 - 03:57pm PT
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the last two years would have been tough on Mccain
we could have been asking president palin.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 13, 2010 - 11:12pm PT
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Relatives of Spanish cameraman killed in Baghdad use WikiLeaks (as evidence) to press for justice
Source: Christian Science Monitor
Relatives of Spanish cameraman killed in Baghdad use WikiLeaks to press for justice
After years of delays, the family of a Spanish journalist killed in a 2003 US attack on a Baghdad hotel turns to WikiLeaks documents that suggest the US and Spain colluded to prevent legal action.
By Andrés Cala, Correspondent / December 13, 2010
Madrid
In what could be the first legal case to use filtered WikiLeaks documents as evidence, the family of a Spanish cameraman killed in 2003 by a US tank shell during the battle for Baghdad filed a complaint Monday. They seek to open an investigation into whether high-ranking officials here colluded with the US Embassy to stop charges being filed against three American soldiers, including a colonel.
José Couso of Telecinco, the Spanish cameraman, and Taras Protsyuk, a Ukranian cameraman working for Reuters, died April 8, 2003, when a shell fired by an M1 Abraham tank hit the 15th floor of the Palestine Hotel, which scores of foreign journalist were using as a base and Pentagon-approved safe haven. Two other media locations were hit that day, also killing Al Jazeera correspondent Tareq Ayyoub. Four others were injured, leading to broad condemnation and demands to protect reporters.
................
According to the WikiLeaks documents posted by El País newspaper, former US ambassador in Madrid Eduardo Aguirre wrote in May 2007 that “while we are careful to show our respect for the tragic death of Couso and for the independence of the Spanish judicial system, behind the scenes we have fought tooth and nail to make the charges disappear.”
Read more: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1213/Relatives-of-Spanish-cameraman-killed-in-Baghdad-use-WikiLeaks-to-press-for-justice
And that is why they don't want open honest government, or wikileaks, or disclosure, so they can hide their crimes.
Secret governments hide secret crimes and corruption.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 13, 2010 - 11:44pm PT
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Ron,
And how would repressive secret governments becoming more repressive prove your point?
Sorry, it just exposes them even further for what they truly are.
I already knew this would happen. I knew this many years ago. The Good Book says it will happen and why.
But I can keep putting it in their face and prove them to be the monster they truly are.
Don't cower from the truth. Embrace it. Make them face their own evil. It is like holding up a mirror, so they can truly see who they really are, and who they have become.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 14, 2010 - 09:46am PT
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I remain true to my ideals, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange says from a London cell
Source: # # From: The Australian
WIKILEAKS founder Julian Assange has declared from his London cell that his convictions have not been shaken by his incarceration.
And he has accused global giants Visa, MasterCard and PayPal of being “instruments of US foreign policy” after they severed links with WikiLeaks since it began publishing its trove of about 250,000 secret US diplomatic cables.
The accusation came in a statement passed on by Mr Assange's mother Christine ahead of the Australian's appearance at an extradition hearing in London tonight.
It also coincided with a claim by Mr Assange's British lawyer, Mark Stephens, that a secret US grand jury had been set up to work on charges that could be filed against the WikiLeaks founder over the embarrassing leaking of US diplomatic documents.
Mr Assange is wanted by authorities in Sweden for questioning over two sex crime allegations. Lawyers have said he denies the allegations and is fighting extradition.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4658058
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/i-remain-true-to-my-ideals-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-says-from-a-london-cell/story-fn775xjq-1225970989931
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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Dr F -- "I want to know"
Nobody wants to know anything. They want to know what movie/TV celebrity is doing.
They want to know who's going to win the ball game.
They want to know if facebook is still working and who's doing what.
They want to know who's climbing what.
They only care about their own future.
They don't even care that the basic necessity of life air and food are being provided so that one could even begin to care about anything period .....
The modern world is spoiled rotten ......
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
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Dr F
My post above wasn't an attack on you seeking truth but a compliment for seeking truth and a sarcastic example at how we generally avoid it in our modern world.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 14, 2010 - 12:54pm PT
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British Court Frees Founder of WikiLeaks on Bail
Source: NY TIMES
LONDON — After a week in detention facing possible extradition, Julian Assange, the founder of the WikiLeaks anti-secrecy group, was released on $310,000 bail by a court on Tuesday as he challenges a Swedish prosecutor’s demand for his extradition to face questioning about alleged sex offenses.
Judge Howard Riddle ordered that Mr. Assange appear again in court on Jan. 11. He also said that, between then and now he must reside at Ellingham Hall, a Georgian mansion in Bungay, eastern England, owned by Vaughan Smith, the founder of the Frontline Club, which is used mainly by journalists. Mr. Assange must spend every night at the mansion and will be electronically tagged so that police can track his movements, the judge said.
Additionally, he will be under curfew between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m. and between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. every day and will be required to report daily to the police between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m.. His passport is already with the police and, under the terms of his bail, he is not permitted to try to travel abroad.
A British lawyer acting for Swedish authorities had opposed bail saying nothing had changed since it was denied one week ago.
Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/world/europe/15assange.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1292342456-eoGpXS2b4JrhSzAezTXHGA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4658348
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 14, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
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I've kind of lost track of this thread.
But my feelings on this, a few weeks after the leaks, is a mixed bag.
There is a lot of sh#t where a lot more harm will be done than good by releasing info, and where the purpose in releasing seems to be to f*#k America; a lot of sh#t where a lot more good will be done than harm by its release; and a lot of sh#t that doesn't matter.
I don't like the idea of someone dumping everything in the open, but then again, government's do tend to clam up excessively. Maybe these episodes will lead to some sensible middle ground for disclosure.
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2010 - 01:14pm PT
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I agree dirtbag ^^^^^
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2010 - 01:27pm PT
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I agree DMT ^^^^
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 14, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/14/AR2010121401650.html?hpid=topnews
Poll: Americans say WikiLeaks harmed public interest; most want Assange arrested
The American public is highly critical of the recent release of confidential U.S. diplomatic cables on the WikiLeaks Web site and would support the arrest of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange by U.S. authorities, a new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds.
Most of those polled - 68 percent - say the WikiLeaks' exposure of government documents about the State Department and U.S. diplomacy harms the public interest. Nearly as many - 59 percent - say the U.S. government should arrest Assange and charge him with a crime for releasing the diplomatic cables.
Assange was scheduled to appear in a London courtroom Tuesday to formally contest an extradition order on sexual assault charges in Sweden. U.S. federal authorities are reportedly investigating whether Assange could be charged with violating the Espionage Act by releasing the documents, but his potential extradition to Sweden could significantly complicate any U.S. attempt to quickly try him.
A generational gap was evident among those polled, with younger Americans raised in the Internet age expressing distinct views on the matter. Nearly a third of those ages 18 to 29 say the release of the U.S. diplomatic cables serves the public interest, double the proportion of those older than 50 saying so. When it comes to Assange, these younger adults are evenly split: Forty-five percent say he should be arrested by the United States; 46 percent say it is not a criminal matter. By contrast, those age 30 and older say he should be arrested by a whopping 37-point margin.
Though Americans are divided by age, the public response to the leaks represents a rare moment of shared perspective across partisan lines. Large majorities of Democrats, Republican and independents alike see the massive document release as harmful to the public interest. Fully three-quarters of Republicans say it harms the public interest, and nearly the same proportion believes he should be arrested by the United States. Among Democrats and independents, slim majorities say the government should pursue criminal charges against Assange.
These opinions reflect a possible shift in public opinion since August, when about three-quarters of Americans told Pew pollsters that they had heard about a previous WikiLeaks release of classified documents about the war in Afghanistan. At that time, those who had heard about those cables were more evenly split on how the leaks affected the public interest: Forty-two percent said they served the public; 47 percent said they harmed the public.
The poll was conducted Dec. 9 to 12 among a random national sample of 1,001 adults. Results from the full survey have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 14, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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Maybe these episodes will lead to some sensible middle ground for disclosure.
Doubtful. It will always be a fight between sunshine and shadow... always.
DMT
That's a good point too: it's an irreconcilable tension. Maybe at least things will swing towards openness a bit more, as 9/11 fears ease.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Dec 14, 2010 - 03:47pm PT
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Just a couple of thought’s on my take.
What anyone’s thought on the US and all of this, it really is our fault. The State Dept., Pentagon and whoever from Nixon to our current administration all have their own agendas and all “hate” [maybe too strong of a word] maybe "dislike" more appropriate each other. been going on for years.
For as long as I can remember “unknown sources” from the military, State Dept. have given out info to Newspapers on any foreign affair or current assessment’s on any subject to either wake someone up or change the situation. So nothing new on secrets been given out.
Could have been State Dept. themselves but doubt it but would not be surprised. Another reason and “why would this or how could this possible happen since we have the best secure encrypted communication”. Who gets the prize: The people who make sure it does not happen again or make it happen is with ‘Their Cyberwarfare software”.
WE [US] are and have been a dysfunctional country for a while. Another story another time.
But reason I am posting is that to say: bye bye, so long, take it easy Richard Holbrooke [US Diplomat} who died yesterday. You have my honor as a cool backdoor Diplomat and were someone that knew what needed to be done in our current war by not using guns[well we still need them to weed out some]and could have created and was involved and accomplished 4 out of 7 before he died with a more intelligent conclusion to this conflict.
Sorry Klimmer there are secrets that need to be secret to get things done not for the bad but for the good in the beginning.
But for President Cheney and group bring it on.
Charges of bribery against former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney and Halliburton by Nigeria's anti-corruption police may be dropped after an agreement to pay a $250 million fine.
"Discussions focus on the possibility of a plea bargain arrangement," said Femi Babafemi, a spokesman for Nigeria's Economic and Financial Crimes Commission.
"Allowing the company and former officials to pay heavy fines in lieu of prosecution ... they would pay $120 million as fines and $130 million from bad money stored in Switzerland from the original deal -- so $250 million in total."
You can read more on CNN todays news.
And for you Werner: great always the one with wisdom.
American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, Intertaiment Tonight, How may months before finally dropped Mel Gibson. Judge Judy. Jerry Springer,
Who gives a sh#t about anything about War does not bring in any ratings for commercials.
Do see that they are selling game on the tube to buy for "black ops. you always wanted to be a soldier'. and guess who is the enemy or country?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Dec 14, 2010 - 08:40pm PT
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Michael Moore made some strong points in support of Wikileaks on Olbermann this evening. Watch the piece if you can, pretty influential I think.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Dec 14, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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Rokjox
Not this time they have already paid fines to US and their holdings "130 million" are being transferred from Swiss bank. That's just a beginning.
Halliburton will make it up by adding a couple of pennies to our lust for oil and oil manufactured goods. Should take them a week besides their stock {Fatty's happy] is up a couple of points.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Dec 15, 2010 - 02:37am PT
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Dan Simpson
Is there a revolution afoot?
The WikiLeaks battle is stirring the disaffected to action
Wednesday, December 15, 2010
By Dan Simpson, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
It will be most interesting to see how WikiLeaks defenders respond to the effort on the part of the establishment to put it out of business and punish them.
So far measures have included efforts to deny WikiLeaks financial services and websites from which to work; the dubious arrest and imprisonment of WikiLeaks leader Julian Assange on behalf of the Swedish government; and efforts led by the U.S. government to ostracize WikiLeaks and Mr. Assange as irresponsible criminals.
WikiLeaks supporters have responded by cyber-attacking the websites of PayPal, MasterCard, VISA, Amazon.com, the Swedish government and those that kicked off WikiLeaks.
One particularly interesting target is the Swedish government. Most people -- or, at least, most Americans -- see or saw until recently the Swedish government as relatively benign, generous in its distribution of the country's wealth and liberal in its respect of civil rights.
This image has been somewhat modified by the portrait of the Swedish government presented in the three recent films of Stieg Larsson's books, "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo," "The Girl Who Played with Fire" and "The Girl Who Kicked the Hornets' Nest." The government is seen in the films as closely linked to the military-industrial-intelligence complex and heavy-handed to the point of cruel in its approach to dissidents and opposition. It wouldn't be difficult to imagine Lisbeth Salander -- "The Girl" -- in the ranks of the hackers harassing PayPal, MasterCard, VISA and the Swedish government.
Remember, though, that whatever misery the U.S. government is suffering at this point, it is self-inflicted damage.
The origins of the communications vulnerability that led to the massive leaks is perfectly understandable. The further the U.S. government dug into what occurred on 9/11 the clearer it became that the attacks might not have occurred if there had been better communication among its intelligence arms. The CIA had the names of some of the killer hijackers, for example, but did not communicate them to the State Department, which issues visas, or what was then called the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which mans America's borders. So that had to be fixed.
Unfortunately, the only department with enough money and personnel to mount a government-wide database was the Department of Defense, 3 million strong, and staffed in part by people who -- for various reasons -- couldn't be trusted to protect the confidentiality of the information that came into their hands. And so there we were.
The Australian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Kevin Rudd, placed the responsibility squarely where it belongs: "Mr. Assange is not himself responsible for the unauthorized release of 250,000 documents from the U.S. diplomatic communications network. The Americans are responsible for that," he said.
American politicians now busily fantasizing about prosecuting Mr. Assange and WikiLeaks need to bear in mind that if the matter were to come to court, the question of how the secret U.S. documents were so easily swiped would come out. Where the decisions occurred within the U.S. government that made the leaks possible would be interesting to know, indeed.
There is some thought that the struggle between WikiLeaks attackers and defenders may evolve into a major showdown between the military-industrial-governmental complex and the disaffected and alienated, hackers and otherwise. There is some feeling out there that the establishment has been busy shafting the lesser rungs of society, with some success, and that it is now time for the underclass to strike back.
The rape of the economy by Wall Street firms, the unseemly haste and vigor with which the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama rushed to bail them out and the fervor of the now-restored financial sector to grant itself its habitual massive year-end bonuses is the kind of thing that gets people's backs up.
The giant tax break congressional Democrats and Republicans are granting America's rich -- providing an unnecessary $225 billion to the country's richest 2 percent through lower income and generous inheritance and capital gains tax rates -- is further evidence to lesser mortals that America's leaders do not care about them and deserve to be damaged, with the big corporations they nurture, whether it be by WikiLeaks or by skillful hackers with nose-rings.
The hackers are organizing their counterattack. They are employing their thorough knowledge of the cyberworld by coordinating chat-rooms and networks. There are pirate parties proliferating across national lines. There are people who are angry, not only at the attacks on WikiLeaks and Mr. Assange, whom they consider to be heroes, but also at the establishment in general.
Another manifestation of that anger probably was the attack in London last week on the car of Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall by a mob that included British students angry at university tuition increases.
If these confrontations turn into a larger conflict, those on the establishment side should remember that they will be fighting the hackers, who are predominantly young, on their ground -- in cyberspace.
It would be better if this face-off did not turn into some sort of mini-revolution. Those get messy.
On the other hand, it would be wise for all of us to remember that such cataclysms occur when growing numbers of people are hungry, without jobs, without housing, without much hope and with a feeling that their governments are more interested in the well-being of the bankers, financiers and politicians than in theirs.
Dan Simpson, a former U.S. ambassador, is a Post-Gazette associate editor (dsimpson@post-gazette.com, 412 263-1976). More articles by this author
First published on December 15, 2010 at 12:00 am
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10349/1110710-374.stm#ixzz18A9jqaos
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 15, 2010 - 01:08pm PT
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That Dan Simpson is sure one smart cookie.
:-))
WORD
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 15, 2010 - 01:12pm PT
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"ROVE likely playing a leading role in effort to Prosecute Assange"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x9279
Tuesday, December 14, 2010
Is Karl Rove Driving the Effort to Prosecute Julian Assange?
Former Bush White House strategist Karl Rove likely is playing a leading role in the effort to prosecute WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, a source with ties to the justice community tells Legal Schnauzer.
.................
On the hot seat for his apparent role in the political prosecution of former Alabama Governor Don Siegelman, Rove sought comfort in Sweden. "When Rove was in trouble and did not want to testify on the three times he was invited by the U.S. Congress, he wound up in Sweden," our source says. "Further, it was Reinfeld that first hired Karl when he got thrown out of the White House.
............
Why would Rove be interested in corralling Julian Assange? To help protect the Bush legacy, our source says. "The very guy who has released the documents that damage the Bushes the most is also the guy that the Bush's number one operative can control by being the Swedish prime minister's brain and intelligence and economic advisor."
Could Rove also be trying to protect himself? What if WikiLeaks has documents--or Rove thinks it could get documents--that prove "Turd Blossom's" role in criminal activity during the Bush years? What if someone with a conscience from the Bush administration--if such a person exists--provided WikiLeaks with documents that show Rove's role in political prosecutions, the unlawful firings of U.S. attorneys, and more? Could Rove be trying to save his own doughy butt?
more:
http://legalschnauzer.blogspot.com/2010/12/is-karl-rove-driving-effort-to.html
Karl Rove Wants WikiLeaks 'Criminal' Julian Assange 'Hunted Down And Grabbed And Put On Trial'
"Charge him under the espionage act," Rove said of Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder and transparency advocate. "This man is nothing but a serial leaker . I say go after him and go after him hard."
http://articles.dailypress.com/2010-12-02/news/dp-nws-karl-rove-chamber-20101202_1_economic-summit-tax-cuts-julian-assange
http://vodpod.com/watch/4185255-karl-rove-wants-wikileaks-criminal-julian-assange-hunted-down-and-grabbed-and-put-on-trial
Ask yourself, why would he do that?
Then you know the answer.
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