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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Jan 27, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
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A few photos from this past weekend. Still can't believe how DRY this season has been! *sigh*
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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Actually Elcapinyoazz, in my previous residence in Dalkey, I did have two water butts (no jokes please) that would collect runoff from my greenhouse.
California's water problems are down to a number of issues, primarily weather.
Ireland's water problems (yes there are) are down to poor management, crap civil servants and politicians, and greedy companies and wealthy individuals looking to make more money off the average person.
It is playing out as I write.
Money that over the years, especially the Celtic Tiger years, that should have put into infrastructure went instead into the banks, developers, politicians and wealthy "businesspeople".
And one particular man is gearing himself up to not fix the infrastructure but to bleed the people of their money. But he is not the only one, of course. These leeches are in every country.
And put aside the money from telecoms (where he found his fortune), media, cars, gas, energy… water is the most powerful "tool" for making money. We all need water.
And just about 99.999% of the world is helpless to prevent water from making the rich richer.
"Chinatown", a brillant film of the water wars. The Owens Valley used to be green, Hetch Hetchy was sacrificed. The California Aqueduct, voted for because the Southland had more political clout. East Bay Mud (East Bay Municipal Utility District), used to have water that was not mud, some of the best in the US, yes sourced primarily from the Sierra.
Then the drought of 1977, and Contra Costa Water District struck a deal to exchange water with East Bay Mud, and it was noticeable in the first few months the quality of EBMUD water was going down, as Contra Costa Water used the delta as a major source, and we know that the quality of water flowing in the delta from both the Sacrament and San Joaquin rivers was being compromised over the years.
In some ways I wish I was an evil and corrupt "entrepreneur", then I could make it rich on water. But could I sleep at night.
Sure, I'll just tow what's left of the icebergs from both poles. I'll be long dead before a global water crisis affects me. Or will I?
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Jan 27, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
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Build a canal from BC to California, let's suck the Canadians' water,
Patrick, that was seriously proposed about 20 years ago. Some company wanted to lower Shuswap Lake (in BC) by about a meter to pipe water to California. Local residents were up in arms and the whole thing fizzled.
I was reading the following story in the San Jose Mercury last night about California's history of drought. We could be in for serious times considering what has happened in the past.
http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_24993601/california-drought-past-dry-periods-have-lasted-more
Through studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years -- compared to the mere three-year duration of the current dry spell. The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 27, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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Does this mean we can't hose off our driveways for a while?
Doesn't broom-making contribute to global warming?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 27, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
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What are the total projected needs and available for say ten years out? To what degree will the waste water recovery projects make up for projected losses / shortfalls? Are there any other measures projected to contribute to making up for possible inadequacies?
What are the energy reguirements of these projects, such as desalination plants? Where is this energy expected to come from?
Bruce, critical questions, for sure.
Waste water recovery has the potential to make up a huge amount of our needs.
The problem is, that it takes many years to build the infrastructure. I'm involved in a LADWP project to purify 60M gal/day of water to drinking standards. Estimate is that not a drop will be available until 2024.
That's the problem with all engineering projects. They take decades, and a million dollars is a rounding error.
Of course, conservation costs nothing (depending upon what you are doing), and works instantly.
Desal is very expensive. the actual production costs more than 2x what other sources cost, mainly because of electrical costs. They take forever to get built. The ones being built now, were for the projections that did not include a drought. OOOPS.
The other problem with desal, is that it has to be done at sea level, which means the water has to be pumped uphill, in contrast with most water sources, that flow downhill naturally. So...a lot more energy, in some cases much more than the cost of making the water.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
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But Malemute, nothing wrong with evaporation if the water is returned in the hydrologic cycle, or is that the hydro-logical cycle? And when the tender comes up to build and manage the pipeline, (again easier to build in Western Washington and Oregon than down the Highway 5 corridor, I'd think) I want to be the first one to make a bid. Though first I have to cheat a whole bunch of taxpayers and perhaps hit a lot of old ladies over their heads for their purses.
"Canadian Water, the Best," will be the slogan… "BC, Be Cause, it has yellow water".
EDIT
Apologies Taco Standers, I did not intend on demeaning this thread with some useless info.
And, what about Oregon, Washington, Idaho, BC, Nevada, Arizona and such… how much are they being affected by the (super?) high off the West Coast?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
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Jeez, some of the photos on this thread are scary.
What about 120? Are the Meadows open and Tioga Pass?
EDIT
Ron, that may be good news. But I can't help but think that if the high does move, that the West Coast may be in for a deluge. Again, I will point to my opening post, droughts and floods.
And I am always amazed, by the following… (from Wikipedia)
The Christmas flood of 1964 was a major flood that took place in the Pacific Northwest and California between December 18, 1964 and January 7, 1965, spanning the Christmas holiday.
Considered a 100-year flood, it was the worst flood in recorded history on nearly every major stream and river in coastal Northern California and one of the worst to affect the Willamette River in Oregon. It also had an impact on parts of southwest Washington, Idaho, and Nevada.
In Oregon seventeen people died as a result of the disaster, and it caused hundreds of millions of dollars in damage. The flooding on the Willamette covered 152,789 acres (61,831.5 ha). The National Weather Service rated the flood as the fifth most destructive weather event in Oregon in the 20th century.
California Governor Pat Brown was quoted as saying that a flood of similar proportions could "happen only once in 1,000 years," and it was often referred to later as the Thousand Year Flood.
The flood killed 19 people, heavily damaged or completely devastated at least 10 towns, destroyed all or portions of more than 20 major highway and county bridges, carried away millions of board feet of lumber and logs from mill sites, devastated thousands of acres of agricultural land, killed 4,000 head of livestock, and caused $100 million in damage in Humboldt County, California alone.
Perhaps history my repeat itself but instead of Pat Brown as governor, son Jerry will be.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 27, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
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Tioga Pass is locked up...Sawyer Road is still drivable..
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
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Hey you, Rotten Johnny, you seen Jimbo lately? Say hi for me, and I suppose Claude too.
But what Sawyer Road? There are so many as we get around.
Douglas City, Patrick's Point, Sawyer's Bar. You heard it here first, the coming deluge will wash out the rock at Patrick's Point State Park, flush Douglas City down the Trinity River and send Sawyer to the Bar. I own northwestern California.
Douglas Patrick Sawyer (Nostradamus was nothing compared to me).
EDIT
John, looking at some of the photos on this thread of other Sierra scenery/passes, is Tioga Pass locked up for admin reasons, or is there snow (of significant amounts) there?
And what about Bodie? According to the rangers at the time, my friend Andy and I were the first to x-c ski in there (1974), but I do not believe that for one second. I'd imagine with this drought, one could drive quite easily into Bodie, sans snow.
I can only hope that the West Coast receives some rain in manageable amounts these coming weeks. A good snow pack to last through the summer. Yes, I care about people, but people can move quite readily (well, perhaps not economically, Jennie and I are skint here in Ireland). But I think about the flora and fauna in Cali, Oregon, Washington, BC and elsewhere.
Water is so precious, I know that is an overstatement, It's pissing again here in the Sunny Southeast of Wexford. Wish I could send you all some rain.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 27, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
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People can't seem to understand that it's not the environment failing us, but rather the other way around.....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 27, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
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Sawyer...I have a friend who lived in Sawyer Bar and another friend who climbed at Patrick Point...Cut me a deal on some real estate...
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Jan 27, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
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Paul , how sweet was Monitor Pass on that last stretch heading down to 395 ? Long sweeping curves ... beautiful riding .
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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Hey you rotten John, I could sell you some landfill in the South Bay (Fremont, San Jose, Hayward area), but I might get done for it, as it is prone to quivering like jelly in an earthquake. Got 1-1/4 acre in West Virginia, interested? And John, I just collected some rain to send you, but the darn envelope leaked. I have to remind myself not to send liquids in paper envelopes.
And Survival, yes, I challenge anybody to say that humans do not impact on the earth. But according to the late Ronnie Raygun, so do cow farts and belches… and volcanoes, and…
EDIT
Johnny, I first climbed at Patrick's Point in 1972. Not much rock but fun. There is/was this sea stack with a fine 5.9ish crack up it, short, about 50 feet, but a gas.
I am going to start a sea cliff/coastal climbing thread. I only have a couple of pix of me bouldering in the west of Ireland near Doolin along the sea. But with all respects to the late Michael Reardon, rogue waves do happen, so one must be careful and aware.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 27, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
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Thanks Paddy for the rain...I'm thankful you didn't send me some cow methane in that envelope...Big Jim is out and about but i haven't seen him yet...Rarely do...Carry on..
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Jan 27, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
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Paul , how sweet was Monitor Pass on that last stretch heading down to 395 ? Long sweeping curves ... beautiful riding .
Dapper,
Not sweet enough to really push it in the corners. The front tire tucked on me a few times due to fine gravel along the center of the turns that's hard to see.
"Oh, so THAT'S why my bike feels like it's floating in the curves." Haha. Yikes!!
No ice though, so I was happy.
My right grip heater stopped working. So I had to buy some ski gloves in Minden, NV and stuff them with hand warmers. Haha.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Jan 27, 2014 - 02:53pm PT
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Snowing in Boulder--and a lot more than they predicted. But it's upslope, from the east. Not helping the ski resorts in the mountains.
In Moab over the weekend. No wind, no cloud, cold, weak sun. Been that way every day for weeks. There was snow on the ground, a months old, even in sunny spots.
Where's the pacific storms this winter?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 27, 2014 - 03:57pm PT
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The Christmas flood of 1964 was a major flood that took place in the Pacific Northwest and California between December 18, 1964 and January 7, 1965, spanning the Christmas holiday.
Considered a 100-year flood, it was the worst flood in recorded history on nearly every major stream and river in coastal Northern California and one of the worst to affect the Willamette River in Oregon. It also had an impact on parts of southwest Washington, Idaho, and Nevada.
Nothin' compared to 1860
Orange County was an inland sea for three weeks.
Sacramento under water for a month.
http://www.redlandsfortnightly.org/papers/Taylor06.htm
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 27, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
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To grow crops or even just to keep trees alive, everyone will be pumping groundwater. The water table will drop quickly and many pumps will run dry. Wealthier farmers who could afford to drill deeper wells in the recent past, will be able to continue pumping while their neighbors go dry.
worth repeating. folks with senior rights to subsidized water are selling that stuff to their neighbors at a high margin, then pumping the wells.
we now have a 1200 sq mile subsidence zone in the upper sj valley. a bit south of merced, the floor has been dropping a foot per year! it's so bad that's it's damaged the d-m canal.
and we've got thousands of new acres of almond tress going in in eastern contra costa and elsewhere-- we're going to have extreme mining scenarios this year. AZ and CO already regulate groundwater pumping, just because of this kind of experience.
this drought may be the end of a huge chunk of small ranchers and farmers. folks are culling herds already. and since we didn't have a grass season, there isn't grass to reseed for next year even if next season is wetter.
by and large, the smaller ranchers tend to be better about range management and ar emore likey to run grass-fed beef rather than those feedlot steroid freaks.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 27, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
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The 1860 flood literally bankrupted the entire state and put an end to the ranchero system forever.
The Sacramento Daily Union reported that 1/3 of the taxable property in the state of
California was lost, and also estimated that ¼ of all cattle were drowned (200,000). One house in eight was destroyed and 7/8 of all houses were damaged. The loss of all property was between $50 and $100 million (Brewer, 1966, p246). This sum corresponds to an average loss of between $100 and $200 for every person in the state. (The loss of cattle by flood, and the record drought year that followed, ended the early California cattle industry, and the cattle-based ranchero society (Jelinek, 1998/1999).
Brewer writes, on January 19, 1862:
“The great central valley of the state is under water – the Sacramento and San Joaquin valleys -- a region 250 to 300 miles long and an average of at least twenty miles wide, or probably three to three and a half millions of acres! Although much of it is not cultivated, yet a part of it is the garden of the state. Thousands of farms are entirely under water – cattle starving and drowning. All the roads in the middle of the state are impassable; so all mails are cut off. We have had no “‘Overland” for some weeks, so I can report no new arrivals... The telegraph also does not work clear through, but news has been coming for the last two days. In the Sacramento Valley for some distance the tops of the poles are under water. The entire valley was a lake extending from the mountains on one side to the coast range hills on the other. Steamers ran back over the ranches fourteen miles from the river, carrying stock, etc, to the hills.”
Remember Judge Field? He was responsible for support for Whitney and Brewer’s investigations. His home, although located on one of the higher areas of Sacramento, was filled with two feet of mud after the food waters subsided.
For a week the tides at the Golden Gate did not flood, rather there was continuous and forceful ebb of brown fresh water 18-20 feet deep pouring out above the salt water. A sea captain reported that his heavily laden ship foundered in the Gulf of the Farallons off of San Francisco, due to the layer of fresh water. Fresh-water fish were caught in San Francisco Bay for several months after the peaks of the flood. These events have not happened since. (Ellis 1936)
Peak flow of the Santa Ana river in San Bernardino, (about where the 10 freeway crosses) was estimated at 320,000 cfs For perspective the total maximum flow of the Mississippi is between 200, 700 thousand CFS depending on the year.
From stream bed geology along the coast it looks like this kind of event is a regular 250-500 year occurrence.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 27, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
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hey there say, patrick, thanks for the title share, here...
(i'm a calif gal and remember drought, dry years, etc, and the thoughts
of folks at these times)...
paul... thanks for the interesting info...
kunlun_shan... thanks for the news link...
also:
on the side note, as to all this... just curious????
does the lack of deep water in ground, etc,
cause enough change in the berocks/ground, etc,
as to make calif more earthquake iffy?
as to the movement, around or near the faults???
thanks for any info, on this, as well as drought info...
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