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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 10:48am PT
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Monolith, you gonna join Healje on the gun confiscation task force.? Or you just gonna "f*#k" stuff? Lol
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 16, 2016 - 10:48am PT
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If any of you anti-Christian fanatics...
Jody, you should be grateful since we're the only thing standing between you two crazy fundamentalist ideologies
from cutting each others throats.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 16, 2016 - 10:50am PT
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Bullsh#t. The second amendment is interpreted as it is because of the recent decision of an activist rightwing majority on the court.
The idea that buying, registering and insuring guns and licensing, testing and insuring gun owners should be any less restrictive than driving is the very definition of insanity.
The issue of an individual right to keep and bear arms was decided by the then-majority of conservative judges, but they were hardly right-wing activists. The Bill of Rights differentiates between states (called, appropriately enough, "States,") and individuals (called "the people.") There's nothing activist about deciding that a provision that says
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
means that individuals have a Second Amendment right, not just the states.
That language differentiates driving, which has always been held to be a privilege, from bearing arms, which the Constitution makes explicitly a right.
That said, I am aware of no court that holds that the Second Amendment prohibits reasonable regulation of firearm ownership and use. I served time with an inmate who was convinced that the Second Amendment gave him the right to own a machine gun. He discovered that the constitutional jurisprudence disagrees.
What strikes me as absurd is how we have an individual who built up a hatred of the LGBT community, and the United States generally, showed signs of mental instability, had the FBI investigate him twice, had the first gun shop he went to decline to sell him ammo (he asked for bulk ammo and a bulletproof vest), and was still able to buy firearms legally. Instead of talking about what we can do within the confines of the Constitution to fix this, we use this tragedy to blame our political enemies.
Just ask Donald Trump. It's all the fault of Muslims, who we should ban (for some undisclosed temporary time) from entering our country, despite the fact that the killer was born here. Just ask the POTUS, HRC and their acolytes. It'a all the fault of the NRA, despite the fact that similar attacks took place in Paris and Brussels, with draconian gun controls in place, and in San Berdoo, where California already bans so-called "assualt rifles." Or just ask the atheist left. It's all the fault of the Christians, because they condemn sex outside of heterosexual marriage. Or ask the gun fanatics, who claim that everyone should be armed so that the Orlando massacre could add people killed by friendly fire to the carnage.
Really?
John
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Jun 16, 2016 - 10:52am PT
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Escopetter - Are you gonna spend all day defending your FREEDOM!!!! to be an ignorant redneck by chainposting on Supertopo, or are you just gonna go kill some stuff for fun?
John - Spot on.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jun 16, 2016 - 10:56am PT
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getting back to escopeta's anti government bent, he is using the internet, hmm.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 16, 2016 - 11:30am PT
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Better be careful with that talk SLR, that almost sounds like you want to denounce your citizenship. Which, you probably already know prohibits you from legally purchasing a weapon in thew USA.
Not even close to true.
Here's the FBI tip sheet on how non-US citizens can buy a gun.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/ffl-tip-sheet-for-non-u.s.-citizens-purchasing-firearms-1
Your helpful government at work.
The second ammendment guarantees the right to "the people" not "the citizen". At least that's what the NRA says. You are born with the righ, according to them. It's not granted with citizenship.
Here is their commentary on the second ammendment:
"WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness--That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed.
The Founders were declaring that we are all equal, and that we are defined by rights that we are born with, not given to us by government. Among those rights is the right to pursue happiness--to live our lives as we think best, as long as we respect the right of all other individuals to do the same. The Founders also declared that governments are created by people to secure their rights. Whatever powers government has are not "just" unless they come from us, the people."
It's interesting they defend the second ammendment by quoting a different document that defended rebellion.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 11:42am PT
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Not even close to true.
Ha, the beauty of the the interwebs....
You should stick to subjects you know something about. You'll never make Admrial Google this way.
In case it wasn't clear. You are wrong. Keep digging. I won't say anything when you discover the truth. In fact you'll earn points when you come back to announce you were wrong.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 11:53am PT
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Good grief dude. Seriously. I won't cut and paste anything to show you up.
Look up firearms eligibility. You're welcome.
I guess we know how often Lorenzo buys guns.
You figure it out yet?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
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Are you gonna spend all day defending your FREEDOM!!!! to be an ignorant redneck by chainposting on Supertopo, or are you just gonna go kill some stuff for fun?
Can't I do both?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
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You're in denial about how easy it is for anybody to get a gun.
your claim that "denouncing citizenship means you can't have a gun is bulsh#t, like most of what you spew.
The second link I sent is used by gun shops to process. There is no check box that flags people who renounce citizenship.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
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Or just kill some stuff on supertopo and chain post for fun
vvvvvvv I am sure Lorenzo is the most intelligent guy Lorenzo knows
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
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Lorenzo, are we to assume that you are this clueless about other topics you post on or this an aberration?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
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That said, I am aware of no court that holds that the Second Amendment prohibits reasonable regulation of firearm ownership and use.
Exactly.
Use a gun in the commission or furtherance of a crime. Your right to keep and bear arms is forfeit.
Violate that forfeiture. Death by firing squad. No three strikes.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
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For those following this thread with the intention of educating themselves (I know, a stretch), I'll have you know that Lorenzo is completely wrong when it comes to firearms eligibility as it relates to people who have renounced their citizenship. That is one of the things that makes a person ineligible to purchase, own, transfer, posses, etc a firearm.
For the record, these are the following disqualifications. Which, also contrary to Lorenzo's poor Google skills, are actual questions in some form on the NICS application.
Ineligible Persons
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
Fugitives from justice.
Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
Illegal aliens.
Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
EDIT: you will notice that aliens in the US legally are NOT by default ineligible from owning or possessing firearms.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
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..you will read this article. Ho-hum
More pathological "I'm the victim" bullsh#t, spewed by the N.R.
A good college education is very useful in teaching critical thinking - which is what is needed when reading the quoted article - as long as you study something besides theology.
And talk about waging war - in case you weren't paying attention, Christians have been waging war on women, free thinkers, intellects, aboriginal peoples, muslims, etc. for the past 2,000 years.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 16, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
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Esco: you need to read the actual statute to see it seldom applies. Here is the definition of renounced citizenship in the federal register ( July 27 , 1997) :
So you need to do it overseas, because we haven't constitutionally been in a state of war since VJ Day.
There is no mechanism otherwise for you to renounce citizenship. It's on purpose, because Billionaires were doing it to avoid taxes on their offshore accounts.
You can turn in your passport, tell the guy at the post office you have renounced, and go buy a gun, because you don't meet the definition. The Ducks in Malheur would be just as imperiled.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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So, you're saying I'm right then? Nice.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 16, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
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That language differentiates driving, which has always been held to be a privilege
When and where was driving held to be a privilege?
The constitutional right to travel elevates a drivers license to something more than a mere privilege. A drivers license revocation requires due process (a hearing) This would seem to make a drivers license a right, not a privilege.
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