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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Norton-Yes, 2013, he did well on that deal.
I'm referring to 2010, the two year extension that pissed off quite a few liberals. That time-line falls into the quid pro quo theory I have-or I took too deep of a hit on that last bong rip. Help me!
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John M
climber
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I believe that our economy is still fragile. A shutdown now could cause serious damage. Somehow we need to start working together to shape a new future. Clinton managed it with a republican congress. We need to do it again. And yep.. I do understand that things are crazier now, so the possibilities seem much less. but a shutdown now could wreck us for a long long time. We still have an opportunity to turn things around.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"...the economy is in such fat city as people here claim..."
Who the hell is saying that?
Many here are simply saying it's a helluva lot better than the shithole that Obama inherited in 2008 from CheneyBushGOPco. Pretty hard to argue otherwise.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Pretty hard to argue otherwise.
Actually not. But I don't want to get sidetracked onto that.
For me the question is: How long do we keep talking about a fragile economy as an excuse for perpetually going deeper into debt?
We have reached a tipping point where our debt is actually hurting economic recovery, so kicking the can further just makes us more and more fragile, which is then more reason to kick the can further, and so on.
To me it is our greatest national crisis that we have to keep voting to go deeper into debt. And anybody who says, "No! We cannot keep doing this!" is labeled an SOB.
What I want to know, and I mean KNOW before continuing is: What is the PLAN to stop the ever-mounting debt?
What is Hillary's plan, or Bernie's?
What is the plan of any rebumblecon?
Ridiculous crap like "Oh, we've gotta have a gun buy-back" is the LEAST of our worries. We should be vetting candidates based largely on what they plan to do with the debt CRISIS we are facing.
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John M
climber
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we had a boom right before the bust. who was talking about this then? anyone?
we do need to deal with this, just not by shutting down the country. Thats a lousy way to deal with this and hopefully we don't do that. More people need to write their congress people and tell them to deal with the budget during the regular year and get it done.
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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Pretty hard to argue otherwise.
Actually not.
Please do make the argument then.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Madbolter- That's exactly where I go off the Liberal reservation. The debt has to be recond with.
I don't think it's a stretch to live and let live, smoke pot, be agnostic, yet fiscally responsible and like good country music at the same time- a redneck/hippie if you will.
Obama has stated that he would sign a budget that works towards that end as long as the rich pay their fair share. I think that ship has sailed unfortunately.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Most is crap.
We're talking West Texas style with maybe a little Latin and or Rockabilly flare.
Will Nelson, Dwight Yoakum and the Flatlanders.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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I dont even know what money IS. Other than the government of the USA makes it and the rest of the world uses it.
Explain that and perhaps we can talk about some percieved debt crisis.
But I'm betting you can't explain what this debt or money even is.
It seems like pipe dream that everyone sorta agrees on enough that we all just go with it.
Wealth I understand... Money... not so much.
The 3 wealthiest nations in the world are in Order
1.China, 2.USA/Russia (tie).
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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I believe that our economy is still fragile.
Let's see:
The Stock Indices are at (or near) all-time highs, well above the pre-crash highs.
Unemployment is 5.1 percent, down from 10 percent in '09.
The deficit is 1/3rd of '09 levels.
GDP continues to grow.
At some point we need to quit being helicopter parents and start treating the economy like a healthy, productive adult.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Why, I think that's the nicest thing I've ever heard you say about the ObamaEconomy, Sketch!
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 3, 2015 - 11:25am PT
I'm on the phone with Covered California at this very moment...my rates actually decreased for the coming year for the same plan!
Thank you, Obamacare!
Lower income = More subsidies.
Hope things improve for you next year.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Well, in truth, my plan did go up about $2, but for some odd reason my benefit increased about $13, for a net reduction in the rate. I just barely qualified for the benefit in the first place.
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Norton
Social climber
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Lower income = More subsidies.
maybe, maybe not
because the ACA mandates that at least 85% of health insurance companies premium income actually be spent on....gasp...healthcare
and if not then either refunded or applied to reducing premiums
to date billions of dollars have been refunded
but then, you knew all that because you actually have read the ACA....not obviously
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John M
climber
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Part of the economy's health is people's perception and confidence in it. Without confidence, people tend to spend less and make fewer changes. I believe people's confidence in the economy is still on shaky ground. A countries psyche is similar to a person's psyche. The more blows it takes, the longer it can take to recover its confidence. The last recession was a major one. It very nearly became a depression similar to the great depression. That shook the countries psyche pretty severely.
Plus I believe people have lost confidence, and rightly so, in our leadership. They have seen all the shenanigans our leaders get up to, and they no longer trust them to lead wisely.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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John M
Those are great points you make that usually are forgotten in the political finger pointing.
I would add that monetary policy of the Federal Reserve has a huge impact on our economy.
In addition there are natural business and other cycles, some spanning as much as 3 or 4 generations, some only a few short years.
World events outside our control affect everyone as well.
Maybe we sometimes expect too much of our "leaders".
Maybe our political class is made up of too many narcissists.
Maybe the popular culture puts too much emphasis on personal characteristics having nothing to do with making tough and wise decisions.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 19, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
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Wow United just dropped Obamacare!!
Such great program!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 19, 2015 - 04:02pm PT
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The dems will seek to keep insurers in the market past the 2016 election by subsidy or delayed implementation of the law. If they are unsuccessful in hiding the unfolding catastrophe it's the end of the party and force fed ideology, I fear. I mean, how can they blame unaffordable insurance on the elephants? Any ideas loons?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 19, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
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Yep, that's the freemarket for ya, pyro...any time a new market opens up, there are winners and losers. Economics 101.
United just proved they don't have what it takes, know that they are losers, and are bailing out. Meanwhile, Aetna & Anthem are all onboard.
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 19, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
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Vote Republican!!!...
THE AMERICAN TALIBAN
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