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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
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"Donald, just man up and admit that yer ok with chipping. "
I am not OK with chipping, unless it is on something that will fall off anyway. And that MIGHT include that ONE FLAKE Ivan Greene is pounding on with the lump hammer, if it was moving when I was hanging on it A LITTLE. And it would have to be on my own property.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
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"Where I think he goes wrong is in taking the disparity in reaction as evidence of hyprocrisy of those who were around in French Connection days. The way in which the climbing public received evidence and the differences in communal interconnectivity make the two situations incomparable. "
Again, I strongly disagree. All you would need is a climbing magazine article, such as the write up about me. It would have had the same effect. And in the end it worked wonders without video or posts, I was forced to deal with the climbing community *at large* in many ways, and change my ways. And I can say I speak from experience when I say this. So, your wrong.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Feb 27, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
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unless it is on something that will fall off anyway.
No hammer required if that's the case.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 27, 2013 - 07:39pm PT
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Good, quote me.
All you would need is a climbing magazine article, such as the write up about me.
Please for the love of god, someone give me some of the attention Ivan is getting. I chipped way before he did.
Poor thing. Even I have my name in a climbing mag (2 I think?). Are you getting the attention you so desperately crave yet?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Feb 27, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
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Hey could one of you dinguses please change your name? You're getting me confused which is which. Dingus McGee and Dingus Milktoast that is.
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The Call Of K2 Lou
climber
Squamish
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Feb 27, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
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Hey could both of you two dinguses (donald and mechrist) take your pithy strokefest of an argument over to rc.com, where being mentioned in a climbing magazine might actually be something that elevates one's status?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Feb 27, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
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milktoast,
the only pretty girl I have seen you posted with is your daughter. Show us the other ones.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Feb 27, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
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Haha that guy in Wes' .gif is trying to chip with his head. Kenny is so funny. Someone else will be banned before we're thru here I'm thinking, especially if u can get banned for being a chippy chipperson.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 27, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
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Having climbed a d camped with both Dingus's I'm pretty sure I could distinguish them each in a line up..... One of them is taller than the other.
What would really be fun would be to get them together sometime. That'd be a party!
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Feb 27, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
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Again, I strongly disagree. All you would need is a climbing magazine article, such as the write up about me. It would have had the same effect. And in the end it worked wonders without video or posts, I was forced to deal with the climbing community *at large* in many ways, and change my ways. And I can say I speak from experience when I say this. So, your wrong.
The grammar nazi in me would merely point out that you're wrong, but when you honestly believe that everybody else is wrong, and you're the only one who's right (particularly when people such as rgold disagree with you) then you may be genuinely insane.
Curt
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2013 - 12:20am PT
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Let's check in on this thread...
Nevermind.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Feb 28, 2013 - 01:28am PT
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Curt wrote: “ ...[W]hen you honestly believe that everybody else is wrong, and you're the only one who's right (particularly when people such as rgold disagree with you) then you may be genuinely insane.”
OK, so neither I nor was anyone else convinced by a climbing magazine article that I had to change my style, and I kept drilling holes, chipping rock, removing fixed pins, resting on gear[1.], etc. etc. etc? That makes better sense, right? Or do you have some other point failed point I need to see?
My point is that the NY Shawangunks climbing community started out with Henry Barber and John Bragg [2. See Yankee Rock and Ice] who developed higher standards than anywhere else on the planet, and then dropped the ball when Brag left and it came around to the Twilight Zone, essentially allowing the chipping to continue by putting the chipping route into the guide books and bragging about it in the Smithson. It really would have been quite the test piece of test pieces, now we got a bucket instead. But I remember what it used to look like because we worked on it, put the rock back. I find it amusing that some of you guys really think you’re going to make a point now and come out smelling like roses. You cannot allow the chipping of the last and greatest aid route to be “freed” into the Gunks guide books, writting nothing negative about it, and then complain when someone else starts chipping under a rock somewhere that no one knows anything about. Meanwhile, I could not get my routes in there because complainers were holding a grudge. Deal with your history and stop being so hypocritical, you failed. If the idea it to make a statement, or to be climbing at Skytop and other like places sometime in the future, you can forget about that now till we can get our act together.
Notes:
[1.] This idea took a little longer to sink in.
[2.] Yankee Rock and Ice. You can purchase a copy on Amazon.
http://books.google.com/books?id=3LtZKlCrK5gC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 28, 2013 - 01:49am PT
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I will put that on the very bottom of my list of things to read, just below the Twilight series.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Feb 28, 2013 - 02:59am PT
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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to manufacture climbing routes ...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2013 - 03:05am PT
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Ho boy there's a lot of words going on from Donald. Lots of reading in those posts.
I think I'll just not do that and watch RuPaul's Drag Race instead. Seems a bit more enterataining, and probably has more to do with Rock Climbing.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Feb 28, 2013 - 03:29am PT
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In this stroll down memory lane, let's not forget that Fritz Weissner was setting standards at the Gunks before Barber and Bragg.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Feb 28, 2013 - 04:00am PT
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^^ my first thought too.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Feb 28, 2013 - 07:50am PT
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As for what is going in the rest of the world, some of you fellows must not ever see the monthly mags and think that the only thing going on is what is happening here on ST.
See Rock and Ice April 2013 pg 13 about Riggins in Idaho. The limestone cave wall has about 100 routes and projects and a scarcity of only one natural route which is 5.14. The rest of the routes have holds that have been drilled, chopped, hammered or chiseled.
Circa 1992 here in Laramie the avante garde of route establishers ask among others Scarpelli and I if they could "sanitize" and "connect" some lines on the high limestone ridges north of Laramie. The group of Becthel, Kalakay, Jello and others got 100% consensus for the DeMilitarized Zone. A new land owner now denies crossing his land for access and the area is somewhat forgotten. But they had no problem with the BLM land managers doing this "chipping".
Contrasting WY, UT, ID and CO with NY yields some big differences. Virtually all climbing in these 4 states is on public land. In WY one could get lead poisoning while merely crossing public land, yet alone chipping. So in WY most of us seldom do anything on private land.
In NY the resources are scare and I think most of the land having rock is private. So there is very little potential for the climbing factions to put up routes by means they see fit.
And as for you Mechrist you could be the West's Elmer Gantry and preach your naive views on the evils of chipping to all your small kingdom. But STFU we are tired of your irrelevancy.
I must say that what goes on in the Gunks is of no conern to me. We have our sovereignty here and we use it, but not like sheep.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Feb 28, 2013 - 08:53am PT
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Meanwhile, I could not get my routes in there because complainers where [sic] holding a grudge.
Aha. Now we're getting to the real issue, or at least to the source of Donald's passion for it.
Mostly, Donald's points are moot, even when they are marginally coherent. (For an example of the more pervasive incoherence, he singles Bragg and Barber out for hypocrisy even though neither of them has said a word about the current situation.) And his claims are moot even if you buy his tarring of a generation or two of Gunks climbers as hypocritical for not writing magazine articles condemning the chipping on Twilight Zone. (Donald participates in the hypocrisy he condemns by not having written such articles himself.) At this point, The French Connection activities are nearly thirty year-old local news. Most of today's climbers know nothing about it, and wouldn't know anything about it even if some article had appeared in a magazine that would now probably be defunct.
Donald wants his perceived hypocrisy of the elders to be visited on subsequent generations who know nothing about all of this, and he wants to use this perception to disqualify the genuineness of everyone's views on the current chipping situation. Not only is this is nonsense, it is an unfortunate distraction from the real issues.
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