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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 02:57am PT
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Hey ya'll, let me know (email or here) if you are bringing a friend(s)/family so I can add them to the list and account for them too.
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REIGN 1
Trad climber
Mt. Woodson, Ca
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Jan 12, 2010 - 03:11am PT
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My train is only a couple of power moves to a 5.9 crack. If I remember right woodson has always been rated on the single hardest move of a climb. Nails is different in that it is a technical face crack that sticky rubber made easier. So I'd say I Hear My Train A Comin is solid 11.c, Hard as Nails is right there at 11.c+
Ratings are always subjective. Like if you stack enough pads under a reach problem, it becomes much easier to do the moves. The only thing that matters is if you are having fun.
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REIGN 1
Trad climber
Mt. Woodson, Ca
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Jan 12, 2010 - 03:20am PT
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You might want to add Henny's psychiatrist to the list. Cuz by the time this shindig comes around, he's gonna be needing one! hahaha
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 03:25am PT
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Gosh Donny, you make IHMT sound easy! Good point though, a concensus is definitely the way to rate a climb to account for the subjectiveness. And, as "back-in-the-day" climbers, you and I both know we can't throw in the pad excuse for they didn't exist back then and everything was a standing start off our piece of carpet, lol! Good to hear that you and Dan are going to be there. It'll bring back great memories seeing you guys. Thanks again.
P.S. Henny's psychiatrist added. Btw, Troy Wold from Ramona says "Hi"! Didn't Troy say that you're riding bikes, as he is now, as well?
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 12, 2010 - 03:53am PT
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I think there could be differences of opinion as to the rating of Hard as Nails depending on whether one started it static or dynamic. A static start is the crux (obvious).
Dude (Donny), my shrink is already on the list. Didn't you see his name? Dimes. And you wonder why I'm crazy.
You seem a little confused, maybe he could fit you into his schedule... couldn't hurt...
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 12, 2010 - 09:42am PT
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"The start to H.A.N. is a bounce up to a good face hold (RH)"???
Not the way to start. As Henny states, the crux is pulling on statically. Bouncing is a taint in my book and avoids the hardest move. It's all about style.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 10:23am PT
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Yup, just a quick "pop" off the ground to my right hand, "voila" done! Yeah, I teach static moves over dynamic but as you know Johnny in some instances the section of rock is void of holds and dynamics are required to overcome that section. Or, dynamics is a more efficient way of climbing. Sure, there may be a static sequence but why if you can get through that section much quicker by a dynamic move, bragging rights? For some of us, that can't pull off those "phenom" moves, we have to do something if we're ever going to get a chance to experience what is above, ie; bounce, jump, dyno, tree standing/shoulder standing, hangdogging, rap inspection, inspecting the topout prior, stacking pads (this is one I won't do), and cheatstones, ie; Go With The Flow. I've done, and will do, all these things in order to experience the route. I'm sure you would frown on what it took me to eventually get My Train but that's okay too for all I wanted was to be like you guys a bit too early in my ability level. Eventually most of these antics, as I learn the techniques, are eliminated but often I never get that good. I'll have to hang around you guys a bit more to let some of "that" rub off on me, haha!
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 12, 2010 - 11:37am PT
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I have no problem with dynamic moves on a climb or jump starts when there are no holds. There are holds to start statically on H.A.N, it just makes the climb harder. We pretty much need to invalidate your rating as you avoid one of if not the hardest move. Also, no difference between jumping to holds and stepping off stacked pads. Either way, you are only cheating yourself.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 12, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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pretty sure i did a little hop on the start of hard as nails...nailing that thing totally static is the kind of sw0le stuff that only a henny can do.
no pads though, and i'm sure even 4 or 5 inces of foam boost could make a pretty bid difference on that rig.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 12, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
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There are two valid ratings for it, whatever they are. The one used is a personal choice and if happy with it, great. For me anything dynamic seemed a personal admission of not being able to do the hard opening move, which was obviously doable. Pretty much that simple.
I think where caution can be exercised is in saying a problem is only the easier rating, without acknowledging the alternative or knowing how it was done. The harder start is just as valid.
Preferring the harder start because of the challenge, and then rating it accurately, doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with pride.
I'll restate this: Hard as Nails is an absolutely beautiful thin crack.
Too bad it has to have a rating.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 12, 2010 - 01:41pm PT
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Too bad it has to have a rating.
This is true of many things in life.
One of the benefits of not running an 8a.nu scorecard, is that I don't care what the number is for some particular bouldering sequence.
I did HMT so long ago that I can barely remember it. I don't think I ever even saw that HAN deal, but it looks cool.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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Jan 12, 2010 - 02:02pm PT
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Even in a competition, ratings don't really matter. Like most quantifications, they seldom tell the real story.
In the early days at Woodson, Bros, ratings took last place and fun took first.
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REIGN 1
Trad climber
Mt. Woodson, Ca
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Jan 12, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
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Henny did hard as nails as clean as I've ever seen it done. The rating thing between me and him is a running joke from way back.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 12, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
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In the early days at Woodson, Bros, ratings took last place and fun took first. true dat. still true, i think. ratings are little more than a goofy sideshow. woodson probs rock domes, regardless of the rating.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 12, 2010 - 03:02pm PT
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A goofy sideshow. Yes.
I'd like to be done with the Hard as Nails rating discussion. On the bottom line who cares how hard it is, or how hard someone else thinks it is. Number talk has started to ruin my buzz. It should be about a beautiful thin crack, Woodson, and fun times. End of that story.
Now... Let's take this thread somewhere else, eh? How about some more pictures?
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Jan 12, 2010 - 03:07pm PT
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BVB, you gotta remember that back in the day we were soloing everything and calling it .10c...Even Driving South...(Oh and I did notice your soloing shot of Lie Detector...What would that be then? .11a?)
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 12, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
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henny, i'm blown away you never saw hard as nails before this weekend. what other gems have you missed out on!?
and you did it on sight...uh-oh. oh my. ummmm, er, i may have to bow out of this whole debacle to avoid terminal humiliation at the hands of the roubdouxiers!~
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jan 12, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
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Don't you dare bow out. I'm hoping you'll do more than one day, regardless of how hard you climb the first/second day because I still don't think I can make Saturday.
I've missed plenty of gems, without doubt. The Sail, Starface, PhD, ..., need I go on? I hope to work a few of them off. I wish I would have done more when I lived closer, it's an effort to get there now from Bishop.
This thread has rekindled my interest in Woodson. The stuff is just so good. In my book it may be the best bouldering/toproping area in SoCal.
Edit: Gary, Looking Sketchy There (#14) = Randy Vogel (#88).
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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Hey Darrell, uhemm...thought your finger was healing from a tendon injury?:
From: Darrell Hensel
Sent: Mon 12/28/09 1:41 AM
"I'm currently running a ligament injury to a finger which will probably severely limit the amount of thin cracks I can do."
And then he solos Hard As Nails on a ligament injury?! I smell a mole!
P.S. Got the correction Darrell, thanks.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 04:37pm PT
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The List:
1. ? Ron Kauk
2. ? Rick Piggot
3. Greg Cameron aka eeyonkee
4. Bob Van Belle aka BVB
5. ? Mike Paul aka Watusi
6. Greg Epperson (our local "famous" photographer)
7. Klimmer
8. Off White
8. Salad (post climb party)
9. ? Phantom X
10. ? Zip
11. Adam Kimmerly (photographer/ACSD)
12. BeeHay aka Brad H.
13. Michael aka Oldcragger
14. ? looking sketchy there
15-16. Steve Grossman and Mimi
17. Mr. Dick Cilley
18. Ron Gomez
19. Levi
20. M. David
21. mungeclimber
22. Jaybro
23. Josh Higgins (ACSD)
24. blr
25. Christian Griffith
26. Pam aka Shanti
27. ? Klk
28. ScuffyB
29-30. Mr. & Mrs. Crusher
31. Bruckman
32. Jeff Leads - (Prana / ACSD)
33. ? Bob D'Antonio
34. ? Matt
35. Cragman
36. Dirt Claud aka Claudio
37. Sonja aka s.d
38. Nick aka Gonzo Chemist
39. ? immanti
40. Eliot Carlsen
41. Gary aka illusiondweller
42. Randy Leavitt
43. R Bolton
44. Steve Belford
45. Karen Roseme
46. Terry Upton
47. ? Mooser
48. Kevin Powell aka Dimes
49. Dr. Sprock
50. Darrell Hensel aka henny (with psychiatrist)
51. M. Fisher
52. S. Girard
53. J. Campbell
54. Chris (surfer)
55. Erik (plumber)
56. Todd Gordon
57. Radical Riley
58. Lynne Leichtfuss
59. Mike (http://www.ClimbinCalifornia.com);
60. Pyrosis aka Tavis
61. Jeff Gicklhorn aka Seekthereason
62. James aka F10
63. ? Bluering
64. Tom Scott
65. GDavis
66. Dan Beal
67. ? Ed Hartouni
68. Andy Redding aka bajaandy
69. Porkchop_express
70. Chas
71. Johnny aka Johannsolo
72. Melissa
73. Schaffer
74. Nefarious
75. Tim
76. Jason
77. Gary Carpenter
78. "Mo" aka Reese Montana
79. Mo's brother
80. Matt
81. Dave Evans aka Dee ee
82. Anxious Melancholy
83. Diablo aka Jeff Almadovar
84. REIGN1 aka Donny Bedford
85. Roger Barnes
86. Dan Hauglestine
87. em knOt aka Nurse Ratchett
88. Daphne
89-90. ? Tom and Elkie Lindner
91. ? Chris Lindner
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