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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Dr. F.- How to feel about the Grim Reaper? Mother Nature? As concepts. As metaphors. As personalizations? Are they "delusional."
I ask because... Human culture is always going to have the "god concept" or the "god personalization" or the "god metaphor." Human culture and language and story telling what they are.
Distinguishing between God as above and God Jehovah (the God of Moses) in a for-real sense gives traction in talking about beliefs, etc.
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WBraun
climber
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Dr F
You should never blindly believe anyone.
Your projections are full of illogical fallacies and even you know that.
The science of the soul and it's relationship to God exists. One only needs to take to this science to come to the experience of Gods existence.
Cheaters like you Dr F will surely fail due to your non perseverance, envious nature, and other coverings on your soul.
You are not scientist, but a crazy ranter who screams into the wind and produces nothing .....
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2010 - 01:37pm PT
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From Base104:
I don't believe in the theory of the electron. Nobody has ever seen
one, and it is only those elite "Scientists" who go around poisoning
my child's mind.
And Chemistry for that matter. It is all hocus pocus. They just mix
stuff together. I have washed my hands in acetone a bunch and I never
had cancer. Cancer is a liberal invention.
Geologists? They are all atheists. If they would just look, evidence
for the great flood is everywhere. Fossils can be explained.
The earth was made for us to use. About the time we have used up the
resources and made enough souls for Jesus, he will come back and leave
the heathens for the antichrist.
Astronomers are liars. The Universe isn't 13 billion years old. God
just turned the lights all on at the same time.
Physics is the worst of all. They use all of this demonic symbology
and are the root of all of the sciences, which are the work of the
devil.
Home school. And guns are good, too. Gotta keep the liberals away when
they take over the country.
Just visit this place for the answers: http://creationmuseum.org/
And to refute all of the garbage, here is a link that will tell you
the TRUTH as god intended:
http://www.creationism.org/
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Fructose-
I've been thinking about your proposal to always specify which god a person is referring to. Even though everyone who believes in God agrees in principle that there is only One, you are quite correct in noting that the old Testament Yahweh and the New Testament Abba of Jesus, seem like entirely different gods.
Another way of dealing with the problem that I personally prefer, is the solution of the Buddhists who fought against the anthropomorphizing trends of Hinduism by refusing to give a specific name to God at all. Hence we are left with the Unborn, Undying, Uncreated, Unchanging, with Emptiness and Nothingness meaning nothing your petty mind and mine can conceive of, my favorite, Original Mind, and also No Mind, One Mind, the Cosmic Buddha, the Great Radiant Being of Bliss, and Nirvana.
Some modern Christian theologians have also followed this trend, though I doubt they even knew of Buddhism, and referred to God as The Source or The Ground of Being. Meanwhile any new religion like naturalism would need a suitably abstract and science based name to be credible
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Gobee-
I actually read through your last long posting and was dismayed as it seems to contradict what you said before in regard to the children in China and also the words of Jesus himself.
I believe you need to think long and hard about following someone who puts himself and his interpretstions above the Pope, Mother Theresa, Billy Graham, and Robert Shuller, the church fathers who established the canonical Bible, and numerous missionaries around the world. Likewise think long and hard about rejecting a concept like "God's wider mercy" in favor of the narrow interpretation of a small handful of people and their exclusive self righteousness.
You are a good hearted person so why follow such a mean spirited interpretation of the "Good News"? Why not focus on Jesus' saying "In my Father's house are many mansions", "Those who are not against us are for us", and the words of Jesus himself when he says that it is NOT faith that can move mountains or speaking in tongues or preaching that is the will of his Father in heaven but those who minister to the least of men - the hungry,the thirsty, the sick, the orphans and widows, those in prison. You could also choose to focus on the fact that Jesus drank water from a woman with seven "husbands" and upheld the Good Samaritan over the Pharisees who believed the right teachings and meticulously followed the law but had no charity.
Who do you really put your faith in Gobee - Jesus and the founders of Christianity and it leading representatives today, or some small minded and small hearted person who is trying to make the universal teaching of Jesus into an exclusive private legalistic club?
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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"God is a verb."
 R. Buckminster Fuller
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roadman
climber
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Dr F
You should never blindly believe anyone.
Your projections are full of illogical fallacies and even you know that.
The science of the soul and it's relationship to God exists. One only needs to take to this science to come to the experience of Gods existence.
Cheaters like you Dr F will surely fail due to your non perseverance, envious nature, and other coverings on your soul.
You are not scientist, but a crazy ranter who screams into the wind and produces nothing .....
brawny this is almost as funny as you going around calling everyone retards..... Dude admit it...you got an iPad....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Thought I'd share a story from the journey I'm on in India. This stuff happens every day but here's one....
I’m in India staying above Rishikesh in the Himalayan Foothills. The Kumbha Mela, a vast religious gathering, is happening an hour away in Haridwar. My friend from Holland, Danny, and I headed down to Haridwar today to visit the town and see something of the Mela.
In the taxi I was thinking of where to take my friend. I had heard there was an old yogi who had taken a vow of silence and who had an extended experience of the divine who lived near where we were going. I thought it would be good if we could figure out where this Mouni Baba was.
The taxi dropped us off by the Ganges. After walking along the river to the famous main bathing steps, we meditated by the river and took a walk through the bazaar. We were crossing the bridge to the other side of the river and I saw an old Yogi who looked like Santa Claus and was wearing all burlap clothing. He exuded a vitality and youthfulness that was ageless. I offered him a bit of money as it is a duty and honor to support real holy men. He pointed to his pocket, as some sincere Yogis try not to touch money lest it corrupt their sincerity. He gave us a big smile and stroked our faces with love, a very unusual gesture in India. He then was walking ahead of us and yet, after a bit paused as if something just occurred to him. He turned around, reached in his pocket and pulled out his identification. It said his name was Mouni Baba!
Now Mouni Baba means a Holy Man who remains silent and there might actually be a couple Mouni Babas in town. But on the other hand, there are many hundreds of Babas in town and I had only learned the name of one on this trip, Mouni Baba! I was just happy to meet a Soul so bright, living in simple burlap clothing, giving Love, and having faith that God would provide for him. It seemed an auspicious that we were also blessed and on our path.
Hoping you receive the blessing of intending a path of Love and then enjoying the magic of that journey.
Peace and Love
Karl Baba
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah the The Kumbha Mela is awesome.
Not like these dry mental speculators in this thread and their stupid rants against God holding onto their dry science books.
The The Kumbha Mela is life ......
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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"Not like these dry mental speculators in this thread and their stupid rants against God holding onto their dry science books."
Love for All means All. The mental speculators on this thread are fine people with good intentions. We all have our blind spots and nobody wants to be fooled or let down.
Forgiveness, inside or outside religon, brings Light and Freedom
Om
Baba
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MH2
climber
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Many thanks, Karl, for returning a happier tone to the talk, here. What makes keeping up with it fun is seeing what people are up to, what they have to say, and guessing what they are thinking and care about. It is fine to care about definitions and wording, but I think that when a person's idea is clear they can express it without too much attention to precision. If part of what they say is unclear we then can ask a question.
In the very modest context of this discussion, if there is a misunderstanding or we get a decimal point wrong, it isn't like a bridge somewhere is going to fall down.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Base 104-
One of the many nice things about India is how many cyber cafes they have there.
Meanwhile, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there currently two theories of how life began? One is based on the idea that lightning struck the right chemicals and started the process (reproduced in our labs with electricity, ammonia etc.) and the other, that it arrived on meteors from outer space since they too are observed to contain the four amino acids present in DNA?
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Gobee
Social climber
Grace By Faith
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(Note; When you click on the link http://www.gty.org/Radio/Archive, the GTY Radio Archive page will come up and for each program, like the one you read- Exclusiveness of the Gospel, The Part 1- you have the option of listen, read, or download the message!)
Jan-
Thank you, I think your the first person to read and make a comment on what I posted!
"I actually read through your last long posting and was dismayed as it seems to contradict what you said before in regard to the children in China and also the words of Jesus himself."
Faith in Jesus is God's offer of love and forgiveness when we don't deserve it, I am nothing all to Him I owe, but we have to come to him on are own, no one can do it for us! It's only through Him...
Romans 2:6-11, He will render to each one according to his works 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.
Romans 2:12-16, For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
And your right without Love;
The Way of Love
1 Corinthians 13, If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Proverbs 6:23, For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light,
and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life
Acts 10:34-36, So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)http://bible.cc/acts/10-34.htm
Also of note, Philip and Bartholomew were seekers of God's truth and of the Messiah, knowing He could not just be anyone, whom they found!
How Precious Is Your Steadfast Love
To the choirmaster. Of David, the servant of the Lord.
Psalm 36, Transgression speaks to the wicked
deep in his heart;
there is no fear of God
before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes
that his iniquity cannot be found out and hated.
3 The words of his mouth are trouble and deceit;
he has ceased to act wisely and do good.
4 He plots trouble while on his bed;
he sets himself in a way that is not good;
he does not reject evil.
5 Your steadfast love, O Lord, extends to the heavens,
your faithfulness to the clouds.
6 Your righteousness is like the mountains of God;
your judgments are like the great deep;
man and beast you save, O Lord.
7 How precious is your steadfast love, O God!
The children of mankind take refuge in the shadow of your wings.
8 They feast on the abundance of your house,
and you give them drink from the river of your delights.
9 For with you is the fountain of life;
in your light do we see light.
10 Oh, continue your steadfast love to those who know you,
and your righteousness to the upright of heart!
11 Let not the foot of arrogance come upon me,
nor the hand of the wicked drive me away.
12 There the evildoers lie fallen;
they are thrust down, unable to rise.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2010 - 10:55am PT
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Stick the Bible where the sun doesn't shine, GOBEE.
Because YOU are NOT honest enough to ADMIT that the bible is NOT the
"word of god", but was WRITTEN BY HUMANS
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".
6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Once again God approves of forcible rape.
8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
Want proof? Tell me GOD told US to DO THIS.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Norton- What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?
QT What kind of God...?
ANS God Jehovah. AKA God of Moses. AKA God of Jesus.
QT What kind of God? Which God? ANS God Jehovah. The God of the Abrahamic Bibles.
The Abrahamic bibles: Torah. Holy Bible. Koran.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jan- the four amino acids present in DNA
I hope this was just a typo...
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Gobee
Social climber
Grace By Faith
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The Defiling of Dinah
Genesis 34, Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to see the women of the land. 2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he seized her and lay with her and humiliated her. 3 And his soul was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob. He loved the young woman and spoke tenderly to her. 4 So Shechem spoke to his father Hamor, saying, “Get me this girl for my wife.”
5 Now Jacob heard that he had defiled his daughter Dinah. But his sons were with his livestock in the field, so Jacob held his peace until they came. 6 And Hamor the father of Shechem went out to Jacob to speak with him. 7 The sons of Jacob had come in from the field as soon as they heard of it, and the men were indignant and very angry, because he had done an outrageous thing in Israel by lying with Jacob's daughter, for such a thing must not be done.
8 But Hamor spoke with them, saying, “The soul of my son Shechem longs for your daughter. Please give her to him to be his wife. 9 Make marriages with us. Give your daughters to us, and take our daughters for yourselves. 10 You shall dwell with us, and the land shall be open to you. Dwell and trade in it, and get property in it.” 11 Shechem also said to her father and to her brothers, “Let me find favor in your eyes, and whatever you say to me I will give. 12 Ask me for as great a bride price and gift as you will, and I will give whatever you say to me. Only give me the young woman to be my wife.”
13 The sons of Jacob answered Shechem and his father Hamor deceitfully, because he had defiled their sister Dinah. 14 They said to them, “We cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one who is uncircumcised, for that would be a disgrace to us. 15 Only on this condition will we agree with you—that you will become as we are by every male among you being circumcised. 16 Then we will give our daughters to you, and we will take your daughters to ourselves, and we will dwell with you and become one people. 17 But if you will not listen to us and be circumcised, then we will take our daughter, and we will be gone.”
18 Their words pleased Hamor and Hamor's son Shechem. 19 And the young man did not delay to do the thing, because he delighted in Jacob's daughter. Now he was the most honored of all his father's house. 20 So Hamor and his son Shechem came to the gate of their city and spoke to the men of their city, saying, 21 “These men are at peace with us; let them dwell in the land and trade in it, for behold, the land is large enough for them. Let us take their daughters as wives, and let us give them our daughters. 22 Only on this condition will the men agree to dwell with us to become one people—when every male among us is circumcised as they are circumcised. 23 Will not their livestock, their property and all their beasts be ours? Only let us agree with them, and they will dwell with us.” 24 And all who went out of the gate of his city listened to Hamor and his son Shechem, and every male was circumcised, all who went out of the gate of his city.
25 On the third day, when they were sore, two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, took their swords and came against the city while it felt secure and killed all the males. 26 They killed Hamor and his son Shechem with the sword and took Dinah out of Shechem's house and went away. 27 The sons of Jacob came upon the slain and plundered the city, because they had defiled their sister. 28 They took their flocks and their herds, their donkeys, and whatever was in the city and in the field. 29 All their wealth, all their little ones and their wives, all that was in the houses, they captured and plundered.
30 Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, “You have brought trouble on me by making me stink to the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites and the Perizzites. My numbers are few, and if they gather themselves against me and attack me, I shall be destroyed, both I and my household.” 31 But they said, “Should he treat our sister like a prostitute?”
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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MH2- It is fine to care about definitions and wording, but I think that when a person's idea is clear they can express it without too much attention to precision. If part of what they say is unclear we then can ask a question... In the very modest context of this discussion, if there is a misunderstanding or we get a decimal point wrong, it isn't like a bridge somewhere is going to fall down.
MH2- I've enjoyed many a last post of yours. But I'm disappointed you feel the way you do as expressed in your last post. So be it.
"it isn't like a bridge somewhere is going to fall down"
Sure, this thread here at the Taco is pretty irrelevant. But I thought the subject in broader perspective was about belief, God, theology, comparative religions, science and all that these contain. Subjects important to me. Subjects that require attn to greater detail in mixed company. -Which obviously the Taco and this thread are.
I don't know about you (much) but the news on current affairs these days indicates to me that we're spending trillions of dollars over culture wars much of which bases itself on conflicting theologies. It would be nice to able to talk about these with a common vocabulary, some precision, and without ambiguity of terms running wild.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2010 - 11:39am PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2010 - 11:40am PT
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