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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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I carry a "loaded formidable firearm" in public every day.... I'm hardly an insurgent. What's the measure for something you're personally "comfortable" with? Why should your comfort matter assuming you're in no real danger?
I agree that the clowns in Texas open carrying various rifles slung in the front in restaurants certainly seems childish to me. I would not be comfortable sitting with my family in a public place with 10 20-something asshats so equipped trying to make a statement. I'd most likely just leave.
That being said, if they were not carrying such rifles in an unsafe manner there is no crime or real danger and I'd absolutely respect their right to do so even though I wouldn't be "comfortable" with it.
I'm not comfortable with a lot of things people do every day. I don't like being at parties where people are shitfaced drunk and/or high.... Too bad for me.
It's a dangerous thing to try and legislate one's "comfort". We live, or at least used to, in a country based on freedom and liberty. That means sometimes sacrificing your comfort for peoples rights to live as they choose.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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And just when I think we're on the same page, it all goes to hell in a handbasket. Sigh
Madbolter, to borrow a phrase, safe, legal and relatively rare is how I'd like to see gun ownership or gun carrying.
Why "relatively rare"?
In Colorado, law enforcement states that they wish every law-abiding citizen was packing. The Sheriff that granted my CCW stated to the whole group of us there that day (over fifty just that one day out of five that week) that he supports CCW because he believes that an armed citizenry is the FIRST line of defense against crime. I could go on. I, for one, just don't even go a STEP down the road you suggest: "Relatively rare" should instead be, "VERY common, coupled with well-trained."
To do that, we need to reduce the urge (and need) of people to own and carry a gun that is far more likely to injure their spouse or children than prevent a life-threatening crime.
Nope, again, not going there with you. The need and urge is real and legitimate. That's one you are not going to get me to agree with you about.
Even if that study I quoted was an order of magnitude off (no way, not even the critics claim that!), that would still be at least an order of magnitude more legitimate uses each year than idiots and negligents doing dumb things. This is one that you're just not gonna convince me on. I'll always ante up for more training and better lock-down of unattended firearms. But your above statement about "more likely" just isn't getting off the ground with me.
It's trivially easy for criminals and lunatics to get guns, and that needs to change.
Yup. Agreed. And that has very, very little to do with your above statements.
We agree on universal background checks, if not on the level of government to best perform them. If you remain skeptical about their effectiveness....
I'm not skeptical that they can do SOME good. That's enough for me, as I've said. Let's not start up a disagreement where we don't actually have one. Your above points provide plenty of grist for that mill already!
The penalties for negligent gun dealers are laughable, with almost no risk of serious prosecution for dealers who lose the paperwork and sell guns on the side.
Fine, but I'm less sympathetic about this than you would think I should be, because I think we have SO many other FAR more damaging and pressing enforcement problems than this.
One of my good, good friends and her daughter were recently hit by a drunk driver, which totaled their new car, put both of them in the hospital for over a week, and now has both of them (particularly my friend) suffering from what looks to be such severe concussions that it means permanent brain damage. She has been an excellent, highly-evaluated, middle-school teacher and just two weeks ago tried to go back to work. It's not looking good. Her evaluations went through the floor, and they are talking about her not being fit to continue. She honestly can barely think coherently now. It's a struggle for her to keep two sentences together on the same topic.
So, her car cannot be replaced by insurance (you know how a new car goes when totaled: underwater). Her insurance company is saying that she can only get medical coverage, etc. up to the limits of the drunk driver's insurance policy, which was the minimum-legal (of course). Nobody is covering her now massive medical bills. She's looking at suing, but the 30-year-old drunk driver is a loser working in fast food and not, shall we say, upwardly mobile, so will never have money to speak of.
And the drunk driver is about to get a plea-bargain to do 48-hours in jail and six months of probation.
This woman (I really struggle to not explode in pejorative terms!) ruined my friend's and her daughter's lives. I mean, literally, no-exaggeration ruined. Nothing will every be like it was, even close: health, career, car, loss of house due to catastrophic medical expenses... it goes on and on. And the drunk driver is going to WALK with six month's probation! No fines. No requirement to devote 1/4 (at least) of her paycheck for the next 20 years to even START to make up for the damage she did. She just basically walks!
And she is the tip of the iceberg, and that pisses me off a LOT more than the tiny proportion of bad shoots that take place in this country (we're 1/3 of a BILLION people, remember!).
So, you start talking about throwing away the key on people like this drunk driver, and I'll start having a shred of sympathy about another enforcement hobby horse!
TE, it seems that whenever we get close to a pretty sweeping agreement, you make some envelope-edge comments that push me way back from you again.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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It's a dangerous thing to try and legislate one's "comfort". We live, or at least used to, in a country based on freedom and liberty. That means sometimes sacrificing your comfort for peoples rights to live as they choose.
And THAT, my friend, is where the rubber meets the road!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 13, 2015 - 04:23pm PT
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The Armed Citizen:
A 10-year-old girl accidentally shot her 8-year-old sister with her father’s service weapon Friday morning after he left it on the bed while getting ready for work, police said.
The girl's injury does not appear to be life threatening, Fresno Police Lt. Joe Gomez said.
The girls' father is a deputy with the Madera County Sheriff's Department, Fresno Police Lt. Joe Gomez said. The man was getting ready for work about 7:48 a.m. and placed his service weapon on the bed before heading into the bathroom, Gomez said.
There was one bullet in the handgun's chamber. The magazine had been removed, he said.
While he was in the bathroom, his daughters entered the bedroom.
The older girl picked up the handgun and accidentally shot her younger sister, Gomez said.
Officers arrived at the home in the area of Bullard and Cornelia avenues and found the injured girl.
The girl suffered one gunshot wound to her lower torso and was taken to an area hospital, where she was in stable condition.
Gomez, who also has two young daughters, said that as a police officer, he worries about keeping his weapon out of reach of his daughters and younger family members.
The question for law enforcement officers who take their guns home with them is, "What do you do with your weapon?" he said.
Fortunately the young girl will survive.
If only someone in that home had been trained in the responsible use of handguns, this wouldn't have happened.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-girl-shoots-sister-with-dads-gun-20150213-story.html
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 13, 2015 - 05:37pm PT
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If only someone in that home had been trained in the responsible use of handguns, this wouldn't have happened.
I totally agree. As many professional trainers will attest, cops are among the most poorly-trained people that carry guns every day. In general they have terrible shooting skills, coupled with little motivation to improve... they are supposed to keep the things holstered, and it's an "event" if they ever do fire the things off at somebody!
And the whole "one in the chamber, but the magazine had been removed" bit? LOL... yeah, that's some "trained" clearing of the weapon.
Yup, there you have it: our "defenders," so says the anti-gun crowd. With the cops around to protect us from harm, what individual could ever have a legitimate need or even desire to carry a gun in public for self-protection?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 13, 2015 - 05:56pm PT
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I cringe every time it's cop day at our range. They take the place over and then generally proceed to act like asshats with poor muzzle discipline, fingers on triggers, improper clearing of weapons, etc. And boy do we get dirty looks when we say anything.....
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Feb 13, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
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I took this one at a police training range...
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thebravecowboy
climber
just banana-jam it
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Feb 13, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
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Now that the wolves have ruined any form of outdoor activity as we used to know it
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Pure. Gold.
Goddamn they should have a literacy test for ammunition purchase.
Mainly as a barometer on psycho-sensitivity to hoop-jumping.
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Feb 13, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
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Xtrmecat, I totally disagree about the 30-06. Ballistic wise a typical 30-06 round (165 grain @ 2,900 fps) still has more energy at 400 yards than a typical 30-30 (150 grain @ 2,100fps) round has at the muzzle. So you would be saying you couldn't kill an elk at point blank with a 30-30. The 30-06 stays supersonic out past 1200 yards. And that's not a "hot" load by any means. You can shoot much heavier bullets as well.
Now if you are talking about the accuracy of factory ammo at those ranges then yes you may have trouble hitting said target but so will any of the newest super magnums. Much better to work up a load for that particular gun.
Keeping in mind anything over 300 yards that you should be dialing with elevation turrets and not "holding over", know the difference between a first and second focal plane scope(which is why ballistic most reticles are used incorrectly), have a rangefinder, plus angle, pressure, etc. to calculate a shot. The gun is plenty capable.
Sorry to hear the hunting has gone downhill so bad. Same for my buddy in Idaho. We are dealing with the drought
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 14, 2015 - 05:25pm PT
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You would do much better to get super proficient with and 308,30 06 or 270 than to buy a bigger gun that you flyich all over and can't hit sh#t with... Accuracy is always more important than power. 22 rimfire between the eyes beats 300 win mag in the dirt any day of the week.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 15, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
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Shot a 454 casual one. just once....
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 15, 2015 - 03:19pm PT
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I was shooting heavy metal targets with a 240gr 44mag that couldn't knock them over.
Then I switched to a Thompson Contender with a 10" barrel in .30-30
It did the trick knocking them over, but I didn't even go through the first box of ammo, and doubt I'd even try it in .45-70
I have a Sharps Quigley in .45-70 with a 34" barrel, but am still looking to get one with a 25 lb barrel when they do a run this summer. Should be more bearable.
I've had a Browning high grade carbine in .45-70 (bought from the estate of Mike Baker) but fear to shoot it, likely knock me on my ass.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Feb 15, 2015 - 07:27pm PT
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Ron, you got any suggestions for a 7mm mag scope? Thinking 4-12 power, long eye relief, and sub $200. You seen any out there?
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frank wyman
Mountain climber
montana
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Feb 16, 2015 - 11:30am PT
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Istalled the "Slidefire" stock on my AR-15 this weekend and took it out for a test....Holy mother of Moses...worked perfectly...not even a learning cruve...It dumps a mag in about 2 seconds...Need to break out my BETA C-mag next time out and try not to cook the barrel. Raised a few looks from other shooters nearby. Maybe bring some tannerite and really make some noise next time.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 16, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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Good luck hitting tannerite at 100+ yards with the Slidefire... Fastest way to send lots of cash downrange though :)
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Feb 16, 2015 - 02:39pm PT
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Thanks for the responses to my question. I will be doing some more research. Hunt will be in Northern NM. I will definitely practice but cant imagine hazarding a shot more than 200-300 yards. Thoughts on a guide? Necessary?
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peladob
Mountain climber
Mason City, Iowa
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Feb 17, 2015 - 09:28am PT
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Good marksmanship and personal experience with a given system is far superior to bigger and louder.
I'm searching for the right optic for my long range .243 because I am very comfortable with it....been shooting it for 26 years.
I'll still pack my model 90 30-30 in the sticks, even backpacking, if bears are a concern. It's solid and I'm very good with it, despite it's weight and size.
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