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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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I'm with Norwegian on this one, "I maintain my wretch status."
Romans 5:8-11, but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Proverbs 2:6-15, For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 he stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
he is a shield to those who walk in integrity,
8 guarding the paths of justice
and watching over the way of his saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice
and equity, every good path;
10 for wisdom will come into your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul;
11 discretion will watch over you,
understanding will guard you,
12 delivering you from the way of evil,
from men of perverted speech,
13 who forsake the paths of uprightness
to walk in the ways of darkness,
14 who rejoice in doing evil
and delight in the perverseness of evil,
15 men whose paths are crooked,
and who are devious in their ways.
The Steadfast Love of the Lord
Psalm 33, Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous!
Praise befits the upright.
2 Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre;
make melody to him with the harp of ten strings!
3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts.
4 For the word of the Lord is upright,
and all his work is done in faithfulness.
5 He loves righteousness and justice;
the earth is full of the steadfast love of the Lord.
6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
and by the breath of his mouth all their host.
7 He gathers the waters of the sea as a heap;
he puts the deeps in storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him!
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
10 The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nothing;
he frustrates the plans of the peoples.
11 The counsel of the Lord stands forever,
the plans of his heart to all generations.
12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord,
the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!
13 The Lord looks down from heaven;
he sees all the children of man;
14 from where he sits enthroned he looks out
on all the inhabitants of the earth,
15 he who fashions the hearts of them all
and observes all their deeds.
16 The king is not saved by his great army;
a warrior is not delivered by his great strength.
17 The war horse is a false hope for salvation,
and by its great might it cannot rescue.
18 Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear him,
on those who hope in his steadfast love,
19 that he may deliver their soul from death
and keep them alive in famine.
20 Our soul waits for the Lord;
he is our help and our shield.
21 For our heart is glad in him,
because we trust in his holy name.
22 Let your steadfast love, O Lord, be upon us,
even as we hope in you.
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jstan
climber
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A hypothesis on fundamentalism in the US.
Americans like things to be easy. Playing football and making good beer are both pretty hard. We love to sit on our keisters, while watching football and drinking beer. Have not heard of anyone in a mixed mode; watching football while brewing beer. Or even playing football with a glass of beer in hand.
It is easy being a fundamentalist. You don't have to decide what part of the bible to read. Indeed you don't have to read it at all. You just copy parts of it off the net and email it to your friends. They will think you have read all that stuff.
And get back to the telli.
We can reintroduce rationality in the US with a simple change in the law regarding intellectual property rights. (I realize what I am about to say is an oxymoron. But I am an american after all.)
If we extend the restrictions on unauthorized use of intellectual property from 100 years to 2000 years we can stop the bible traffic in its tracks. Think about it.
Doing this will even correct a terrible sin.
Who does Bill Gates think he is?
Having more money than god!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Norton wrote-
Gobbee, let's you and I agree to stop posting sections from the bible?
We are not converting anyone to our point of view, so let's just stop?
Don't stop, Norton!
I for one take back what I said several pages back and have had a change of mind about this. When I tried to get the word out about what the Bible really says 20 years ago, by quoting it verbatim, e.g., Numbers 15 ("the man must die...stone him... as the Lord commanded Moses") there wasn't any medium for traction. But times have changed. In a quantum leap. This internet phenom is powerful, and when you use it to post the Old Testament barbarism, how Abrahamic theology encourages violence, how God Jehovah sanctions it, etc. I do think it reaches eyes that have never seen it before, that otherwise wouldn't see it. And this produces change. So keep up the good work. At least whenever you want.
Brick by brick. (Hadrian)
Be the change you seek in the world. (Ghandi)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
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Fructose, If Gobby continues posting copy and pastes from his personal "select"
sections of the bible, then I will try to occasionally counter.
It really is tiring because Goby and the others who truly and honestly
believe that the bible is the direct word of the guy in the sky, and was
NOT written by humans, will NOT answer me about the horrible and barbaric
commands that the guy gives to humans,
THEY, Goby and friends, NEVER "deal" with this issue.
Also, I have my hands full beating down much the same blind thinking
without supporting factual evidence over on the Republicans Are Wrong thread.
There is only so much I can do as an aging hominid nowadays..............
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Norton, we all fall short of the Glory of God, and could not stand before Him in our own righteous, He is a Holy and just God, and Jesus said if we even think and dwell on bad things we have sinned! We deserve His wrath but He did not stop at that, but sent His Son Jesus to take our place instead, to those who believe, there is now no condemnation in Christ Jesus!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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See what I mean?
Gobbee may be a real nice guy in person, but he has NOT agreed to NOT
post select sections of the bible that support his viewpoint.
And, he has NOT dealt with WHY the bible is full of god commanding
Gobbee and this friends to butcher, rape, and kill other humans.
One or the other: is the bible, all of it, THE word of god, or is it NOT?
ANSWER THE QUESTION, my friend Gobbee.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Norton- I'm sort of new to this thread, so at this point I don't really know Gobee's history here. But what if you just stopped addressing him directly, more or less assigned him troll status. It occurs to me, just in the last three days, I've already adapted to this strategy regarding him. For instance, in last night's dialog, I just passed over him. Seems to work. For me.
We could call it... Troll Passover Strategy.
EDIT jstan, I know what you mean, it is awfully disruptive.
EDIT I think I'll stop calling this troll out by name, too. It just serves as positive reinforcement that this Baptist theomaniacal troll likes.
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jstan
climber
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Actually I addressed Gobee directly when I asked him not to let the wonderful lyrics he was posting beside his texts, break the frame and make it hard for the posts of others to be read.
It happens less often now.
This tells me the future is full of hope.
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MH2
climber
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A while ago I went looking for a previous post to this thread. After a while searching I grew to really appreciate Gobee's posts as long stretches I could skip past as though I were making progress.
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MH2
climber
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Vegetarians? Now that is some Christian lore I have found instructive. In 2002 Robert and I happened to be climbing at Red Rocks and went to a movie in one of the large Vegas casinos. Right there on the big screen we watched a morality tale on the difference between compassion and mercy. The hero was a piece of asparagus.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Feed the man to a fish and you have a teachable moment, possibly a transformative experience.
Except for Robert and me the theatre was empty.
http://www.tangle.com/view_video?viewkey=2119be648db86dff37e6
from Wikipedia
The book of Jonah depicts Nineveh as a wicked city worthy of destruction. God sent Jonah to preach, and the Ninevites repented. As a result, God spared the city; when Jonah protests against this, God states He is showing pity for the population who are ignorant of the difference between right and wrong ("who cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand") and the animals in the city.
Nineveh's greatness was short-lived. Around 633 BC the Assyrian Empire began to show signs of weakness, and Nineveh was attacked by the Medes, who about 625 BC, joined by the Babylonians and Susianians, again attacked it. Nineveh fell in 612 BC, and was razed to the ground. The people in the city who could not escape to the last Assyrian strongholds in the west, were either massacred or deported. Many unburied skeletons were found by the archaeologists at the site.
The book of the prophet Nahum is almost exclusively taken up with prophetic denunciations against this city. Its ruin and utter desolation are foretold (Nahum 1:14. 3:19, etc.). Its end was strange, sudden, tragic. (Nahum 2:6-11) According to the Bible, it was God's doing, his judgment on Assyria's pride. In fulfillment of prophecy, God made "an utter end of the place". It became a "desolation".
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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One Troll over the line...
"WORLD CHAMPION CREATIONISTS 2010"
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Tall Silos of Iowa
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Just visited the "republicans so wrong" thread. Man, you guys play rough over there.
P.S. Food for thought: Why is the "set of solutions" in belief limited to religions and theologies? and in Western culture to the Abrahamic models? when it doesn't have to be?
Where are America's innovators-- the Wright Brothers, the Steven Jobs-- when it comes to belief discipline makeover in terms of life strategies, spiritual development, modern problem solving philosophy? The times are ripe for this! Helloooo...
Often the best way to conquer a bad habit is not to break the bad habit but to replace the bad habit.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Gobee was clearly sent so as to completely discredit Christianism. He's doing a fine job of it. Almost as effective as FatTrad is in his sphere, although we know that Jeff is in reality a DNC operative, whereas it seems unlikely that Gobee is a satanic agent. Although as I'm sure he'll admit, god works in mysterious ways. Women are like that.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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MH2!
The story of Jonah is one of my favorite books/stories in the bible. The Assyrians lived almost another 100 years after Jonah, then they were wiped out as prophesied. Jonah had reason to despise the Assyrians, they would have made Saddam Hussein and his two sons look like choir boys. The wreaked havoc on the Israelites. Would torture and maim and loot, rape and castrate, and worse. Hideous things on a regular basis. They were wicked. And when Jonah showed up and walked the length of their city, they knew a prophet was in their midst. Incredible story. I especially like the end when Jonah is angry at God for sparing the city.
Maybe Gobee can paste the end of Jonah were the plant dies that is giving Jonah shade, and Jonah gets depressed and angry that the plant dies. And God rebukes him for not having mercy on the people and animals.
Archeoligist have proof of the city of Ninevah and its destruction. Just as it's writen in the Old Testament.
I don't have many computer skills and type slow. But it is a wonderful insight to Gods compassion. You should read it.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Wes- "earthquakes"
The bible doesn't say there will be an increase, Jesus said there "will be earthquakes in various places." Also says "there will be wars and rumors of wars." and " And that it will be "merely the beginning of birth pangs" "the beginning of sorrows".
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2010 - 06:36pm PT
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Ok Tripl7, Gobee refuses to answer the question.
So now, I will ask YOU to.
Some questions, yes or no answers, no agenda campaigning.
1) Is the Bible the direct word of your god?
2) Did god himself actually write the Bible?
3) IF god did NOT himself sit down and write the bible, then did
VARIOUS HUMANS, at different times, actually sit down and write the bible?
4) CAN human beings "make up" and write down anything they want to,
based entirely on their OWN life experiences and prevailing culture
WHILE they were sitting down and writing the various bible PASSAGES?
5) The Bible is BOTH FULL of nice, glorious, loving passages that GOBBEE
likes to copy and paste, AND the bible is ALSO FULL of horrible,
brutal commandments from god to KILL, RAPE, and TORTURE fellow humans.
So Tripl7, seeing as how the bible has BOTH "good" and "bad" stuff
in it, is the bible the direct word of god, all the good AND bad stuff?
Depending on your answers, I may have more questions, if you don't mind!
thank you for your answers
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Wes!
Having a hard time dealing with the fact that a city/people the Assyrians were called a myth from the bible for hundreds of years(totaly forgotten by history) untel the were discovered by archeologist in the 19th century...eh? As have other biblical sites and cities, Hahahahahhhaaa!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Norton, both Gobee and I have answered these questions before.
I will simply abbreviate my answer to yes, the Person who is capable of creating a universe as complex and as ordered and magnificent as we know it, is capable of getting His love letter to mankind through human minds and hands in the form of the written Word.
I read a King James Bible(400+yrs. old) about a month ago and it was identical to the one I have that was published in the last decade.
They have had scholars that can read Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew and English interpret Dead Sea Scrolls and early versions of scripture and have come to the same conclusion.
People that have never even opened the bible, my nephew for instance, rattle off these lies like "there are 1,000 of bibles. and there all different. THATS THE MYTH!!
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