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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 21, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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There is no such thing as a clash of civilizations.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 21, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
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So Evil one, you never told me what made the German Jews, who were taking an humanitarian aid boat to Gaza, misguided. Care to explain? Why would they be wrong?
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jun 21, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
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"There is no such thing as a clash of civilizations."
actually, dirt, you're right because barry doesn't believe in civilizations (i.e. plural); he believes in a "world community" and thinks we should all be "citizens of the world"...despite the fact that all his speech-making has accomplished jack
well, i don't want to be a citizen of a world that promotes female genital mutilation or honor killings for daughters who shame their families by being the victims of rape or decide they want to drive and vote and get an education and wear pants...i don't want to be a citizen of a world that hangs homosexuals or stones adulteresses or executes anyone who converts from islam to christianity...i don't want to be a citizen of a world that produces children's tv programs that promote hatred of jews and suicide bombings and that openly claims,
"you value life, but we value death" or thinks it's cute to dress children in toy bomb vests...i don't want to be a citizen of a world that glorifies murdering civilians by decapitating them or having children decapitate them and then releasing videotape of the savagery
i guess barry thinks we're all equal or that america is worse...apparently, do do you
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 22, 2010 - 12:00am PT
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There is no such thing as a clash of civilizations."
actually, dirt, you're right because barry doesn't believe in civilizations (i.e. plural); he believes in a "world community" and thinks we should all be "citizens of the world"...despite the fact that all his speech-making has accomplished jack
well, i don't want to be a citizen of a world that promotes female genital mutilation or honor killings for daughters who shame their families by being the victims of rape or decide they want to drive and vote and get an education and wear pants...i don't want to be a citizen of a world that hangs homosexuals or stones adulteresses or executes anyone who converts from islam to christianity...i don't want to be a citizen of a world that produces children's tv programs that promote hatred of jews and suicide bombings and that openly claims,
"you value life, but we value death" or thinks it's cute to dress children in toy bomb vests...i don't want to be a citizen of a world that glorifies murdering civilians by decapitating them or having children decapitate them and then releasing videotape of the savagery
i guess barry thinks we're all equal or that america is worse...apparently, do do you
Um...do you have a point?
And do do to you too!
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 07:27am PT
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from mark steyn:
Thanks to the wonders of globalization, I’m writing this in a fairly decrepit salon de thé off the rue de la Liberté in Tangiers, enjoying a coffee and a stale croissant grilled and flattened into a panini. What could be more authentically Moroccan? For some reason, the napkins are emblazoned with “Gracias por su visita.”
Through a blizzard of flies, I can just about make out the plasma TV up in the corner on which Jimmy Carter, dubbed into Arabic, is denouncing Israel. Al Jazeera doesn’t so much cover the Zionist Entity as feast on it, hour after hour, without end. So here, at the western frontier of the Muslim world (if you don’t include Yorkshire), the only news that matters is from a tiny strip of land barely wider at its narrowest point than a rural Canadian township way down the other end of the Mediterranean.
Notwithstanding saturation coverage of the “Massacre In The Med” (as the front page headline in Britain’s Daily Mirror put it), there are other Jewish stories in the news. This one caught my eye in Canada’s Shalom Life: “No danger to the Jewish cemeteries in Tangiers.” Apparently, the old Jewish hospital in this ancient port city was torn down a couple of months back, and the Moroccan Jewish diaspora back in Toronto worried that their graveyards might be next on the list. Not to worry, Abraham Azancot assured Shalom Life readers. The Jewish cemetery on the rue du Portugal is perfectly safe. “Its sanctity has consistently been respected by the local government that is actually providing the community with resources to assist in its current grooming.”
Sounds great. Being in the neighbourhood, I thought I’d swing by and check out the “current grooming.” It’s kind of hard to spot unless you’re consciously looking for it: two solid black metal gates off a steep, narrow street where the rue du Portugal crosses the rue Salah Dine, and only the smallest of signs to indicate what lies behind. On pushing open the gate and squeezing through, I was greeted by a pair of long underwear, flapping in the breeze. In Haiti, this would be some voodoo ritual, alerting one to go no further. But in Tangiers it was merely wash day, and laundry lines dangled over the nearest graves. If you happen to be Ysaac Benzaquen (died 1921) or Samuel Maman (died 1925), it is your lot to spend eternity with the groundskeeper’s long johns. Pace Mr. Azancot, there is no sense of “sanctity” or “community”: as the underwear advertises, this is no longer a public place, merely a backyard that happens to have a ton of gravestones in it. I use the term “groundskeeper” but keeping the grounds doesn’t seem to be a priority: another row of graves was propping up piles of logs he was busy chopping out of hefty tree trunks. Beyond that, chickens roamed amidst burial plots strewn with garbage bags, dozens of old shoes, and hundreds of broken bottles.
It’s prime real estate, with a magnificent view of the Mediterranean, if you don’t mind the trash and the stench and the chickensh#t, and you tiptoe cautiously around the broken glass. I wandered past the graves: Jacob Cohen, Samuel J. Cohen, Samuel M. Cohen . . . Lot of Cohens here over the years. Not anymore. In one isolated corner, six young men—des musulmans, naturellement—watched a seventh lightly scrub a tombstone, as part of a make-work project “providing the community with resources to assist in its current grooming.”
What “community”? By 2005, there were fewer than 150 Jews in Tangiers, almost all of them very old. By 2015, it is estimated that there will be precisely none. Whenever I mention such statistics to people, the reaction is a shrug: why would Jews live in Morocco anyway? But in 1945 there were some 300,000 in this country. Today some 3,000 Jews remain—i.e., about one per cent of what was once a large and significant population. That would be an unusual demographic reconfiguration in most countries: imagine if Canada’s francophone population or Inuit population were today one per cent of what it was in 1945. But it’s not unusual for Jews. There are cemeteries like that on the rue du Portugal all over the world, places where once were Jews and now are none. I mentioned only last week that in the twenties, Baghdad was 40 per cent Jewish. But you could just as easily cite Czernowitz in the Bukovina, now part of Ukraine. “There is not a shop that has not a Jewish name painted above its windows,” wrote Sir Sacheverell Sitwell, visiting the city in 1937. Not today. As in Tangiers, the “community” resides in the cemetery.
You can sense the same process already under way in, say, London, the 13th-biggest Jewish city in the world, but one with an aging population; and in Malmö, Sweden, where a surge in anti-Semitism from, ahem, certain quarters has led Jewish residents to abandon the city for Stockholm and beyond; and in Odense, Denmark, where last year superintendent Olav Nielsen announced he would no longer admit Jewish children to the local school. The Jewish presence almost anywhere on the map is as precarious as, to coin a phrase, a fiddler on the roof. And Israel’s enemies are determined that the biggest Jewish community of all should be just as precarious and prove just as impermanent.
In 1936, during the Cable Street riots, the British Union of Fascists jeered at London Jews, “Go back to Palestine!”, “Palestine” being in those days the designation for the Jewish homeland. Last week, Helen Thomas, the doyenne of the White House press corps, jeered at today’s Jews, “Get the hell out of Palestine,” “Palestine” being now the designation for the land illegally occupied by the Jewish apartheid state. “Go home,” advised Miss Thomas, “to Poland and Germany.” Wherever a Jew is, whatever a Jew is, he should be something else somewhere else. And then he can be hated for that, too.
North Korea sinks a South Korean ship; hundreds of thousands of people die in the Sudan; millions die in the Congo. But 10 men die at the hands of Israeli commandos and it dominates the news day in, day out for weeks, with UN resolutions, international investigations, calls for boycotts, and every Western prime minister and foreign minister expected to rise in parliament and express the outrage of the international community.
Odd. But why?
Because Israel is supposed to be up for grabs in a way that the Congo, Sudan or even North Korea aren’t. Only the Jewish state attracts an intellectually respectable movement querying its very existence, and insisting that, after 62 years of independence, that issue is still not resolved. Let’s take a nation that came into existence at precisely the same time as the Zionist Entity, and involved far bloodier population displacements. I happen to think the creation of Pakistan was the greatest failure of postwar British imperial policy. But the fact is that Pakistan exists, and if I were to launch a movement of anti-Pakism it would get pretty short shrift, and in Canada a “human rights” complaint or three.
The “Palestinian question” is a land dispute, but not in the sense of a boundary-line argument between two Ontario farmers. Rather, it represents the coming together of two psychoses. Islam is a one-way street. Once you’re in the Dar al-Islam, that’s it; there’s no checkout desk. They take land, they hold it, forever.
That’s why, in his first post-9/11 message to the troops, Osama droned on about the fall of Andalusia: it’s been half a millennium, but he still hasn’t gotten over it, and so, a couple of years ago, when I was at the Pentagon being shown some of the maps found in al-Qaeda safe houses, “the new caliphate” had Spain and India being re-incorporated within the Muslim world. If that’s how you think, no wonder a tiny little sliver of a Jewish state smack dab in the heart of the Dar al-Islam drives you nuts: to accept Israel’s “right to exist” would be as unthinkable as accepting a re-Christianized Constantinople.
To this fierce Islamic imperialism, the new Europeans, post-Christian, post-nationalist and postmodern as they are, nevertheless bring one of their oldest prejudices—that in the modern world as much as in medieval Christendom Jews can never be accorded full property rights. On a patch of the Holy Land, they are certainly the current leaseholders, but they will never have recognized legal title. To be sure, there are a lot of them there right now. But then there were a lot of them in Tangiers and Baghdad and the Bukovina and Germany and Poland, for a while. Why shouldn’t Tel Aviv one day be just another city with some crumbling cemeteries and a few elderly Jews?
That’s the reason the “Palestinian question” is never settled. Because, as long as it’s unresolved, then Israel’s legitimacy is unsettled, too.
Still, the impatience of the new globalized Judenhass is now palpable. I used to think that, when Iran got the bomb, it wouldn’t use it. I wouldn’t take that bet now. The new anti-Semitism is a Euro-Islamic fusion so universal, so irrational and so fevered that it’s foolish to assume any limits.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 22, 2010 - 10:24am PT
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Apparently Mark Steyn had no clue of the danger he had put himself in by frequenting un salon de thé that advertised their political sympathies with the sarcastic message “Gracias por su visita.” They are obviously supporters of the Polisario Front!
The Clash is omnipresent!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 22, 2010 - 10:52am PT
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What about the flotilla of, as you called them (without explanation I must add) misguided, German Jews? They have told their embassy and the Israeli Government that they are going to Gaza and will not unload at any port in Israel or Egypt. Act of war?
Hey Fatty, do you suppose the Joint Chiefs have a contingency plan for invading and occupying Israel should they deem them to have gone too rouge? Historically American allies, puppets, vassal states and treatied peoples have not fared well when the US losses patience or determines them unreliable. Hhhmmm, just a thought.
Nothing personal Fats, it'd be just business after all.
You know, just a Cost / Benefit analysis.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 22, 2010 - 10:58am PT
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Except when they encounter resistant kids and old people with sticks and stones.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 22, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-silent-expulsion-1.297577
Published 01:53 22.06.10Latest update 01:53 22.06.10
The silent expulsion
Citizens of Israel can leave the country for any length of time, and their citizenship and all their rights are theirs in perpetuity. But when it comes to Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem, Israel applies draconian regulations whose covert intent is to bring about the expulsion of as many Palestinians as possible from their home city.
Haaretz Editorial
Dr. Immad Hammada and Dr. Murad Abu-Khalaf are both lecturers in electrical engineering born in East Jerusalem. Their families have lived in the city for generations. They both left years ago, each one separately, to study in the United States, and after graduating and consolidating their careers they want to return to live in their home town.
But their right to be reunified with their families is being denied by the Interior Ministry, as Amira Hass reported in Sunday's Haaretz. Hammada has been living in his city for some three years illegally, without any rights and under constant danger of being arrested and deported, while Abu-Khalaf is finding it difficult to return, even for a visit.
Judge Noam Sohlberg of Jerusalem District Court is hearing their cases against the ministry this week.
Interior Ministry regulations provide for the abrogation of the rights of Palestinian residents of Jerusalem who leave the city for a period of over seven years. Citizens of Israel can leave the country for any length of time, and their citizenship and all their rights are theirs in perpetuity. But when it comes to Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem, Israel applies draconian regulations whose covert intent is to bring about the expulsion of as many Palestinians as possible from their home city.
This situation is intolerable: At a time when the prime minister speaks grandiloquently of the reunification of Jerusalem, Israel practices inequality and discriminates against the city's Arab residents. At a time when Benjamin Netanyahu speaks of the economic advancement of the territories, Israel prevents the Arab residents of East Jerusalem from advancing their careers abroad and returning afterward to their home city to contribute toward the development of its economy. The screws have been tightened in recent years: In 2008 the residents' rights of 4,557 Palestinian inhabitants of the city were abrogated, the highest number ever.
Waiting on Judge Sohlberg now is not only the fate of two electrical engineering lecturers, but a far weightier question: Will Israel continue treating the Palestinian inhabitants of its capital as if they were foreign migrants whose rights are conditional?
The rights of the Palestinian residents of Jerusalem must be equal to those of Jews. All Jerusalemites have the right to live in their city, to go abroad and return as they will, without any danger posed by the authorities lying in wait for them.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jun 22, 2010 - 06:33pm PT
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Whoa!! On the actor's weighing in on the political front, John Voight wades right in to the clash and body slams the President.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/22/dear-mr-president-jon-voight/
"Dear Mr. President ... from Jon Voight
By Jon Voight
An open letter from actor Jon Voight to President Obama:
June 22, 2010
President Obama:
You will be the first American president that lied to the Jewish people, and the American people as well, when you said that you would defend Israel, the only Democratic state in the Middle East, against all their enemies. You have done just the opposite. You have propagandized Israel, until they look like they are everyone's enemy — and it has resonated throughout the world. You are putting Israel in harm's way, and you have promoted anti-Semitism throughout the world.
You have brought this to a people who have given the world the Ten Commandments and most laws we live by today. The Jewish people have given the world our greatest scientists and philosophers, and the cures for many diseases, and now you play a very dangerous game so you can look like a true martyr to what you see and say are the underdogs. But the underdogs you defend are murderers and criminals who want Israel eradicated.
You have brought to Arizona a civil war, once again defending the criminals and illegals, creating a meltdown for good, loyal, law-abiding citizens. Your destruction of this country may never be remedied, and we may never recover. I pray to God you stop, and I hope the people in this great country realize your agenda is not for the betterment of mankind, but for the betterment of your politics.
With heartfelt and deep concern for America and Israel,
Jon Voight"
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 23, 2010 - 09:26am PT
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OMG what will we do now the Repugs are pulling out actors.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 23, 2010 - 09:33am PT
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Your destruction of this country may never be remedied, and we may never recover.
What a f*#king idiot. No wonder Angelina hates her old man.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 23, 2010 - 11:32am PT
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So we can add Jon Voight to the list of people, like FatTrad, who believe that all US domestic and foreign policy should revolve around Israel.
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