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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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ok, first you guys warned us about "global warming"; however, when it became clear the warming had stopped, you switched to "climate change" and made non-sensical statements like "global cooling is actually caused by global warming" and differentiated between weather and climate
well, now, with the arctic blast pummelling the midwest and east coast, there's this gem:
"It's part of natural variability," said Gerald Meehl, a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo. With global warming, he said, "we'll still have record cold temperatures. We'll just have fewer of them."
and this one:
Scientists say man-made climate change does have the potential to cause more frequent and more severe weather extremes, such as heat waves, storms, floods, droughts and even cold spells. But experts interviewed by The Associated Press did not connect the current frigid blast to climate change.
and this one:
The zigzag pattern arises naturally from time to time, but it is not clear why it's so strong right now, said Michelle L'Heureux, a meteorologist at the Climate Prediction Center of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The center says the pattern should begin to weaken in a week or two.
here's the whole article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34735022/ns/weather/
you see why it's so hard to take this seriously? when it's hot, it's global warming; when it's cold, it's climate change; and when it's really frickin' cold, it's "NATURAL variability" [emphasis mine], which is what we've been claiming the whole time
here's an interesting vid: http://www.accuweather.com/video-on-demand.asp?video=44795589001&title=Worldwide%20Cold%20Not%20Seen%20Since%2070s%20Ice%20Age%20Scare
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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The email scandal, Copenhagen failure, and now another cold winter
must have the Warmists worried about where their next funding checks
will be coming from.
Spending so much on an army of people to watch ice melt then reform
and then write reports that read like Stephen King horror novels
has to end.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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i understand the difference
so why do you guys keep changing the lingo? is it global warming or not? if climate change means colder temps in some places, then does that mean more co2 also causes cooling? if there is "natural variability" how can anyone be certain of the cause of past, present, or future VARIABILITY?
if you can't predict what the weather will be next week, why do you think you can predict what the climate will be 50 years from now?
and how can you trust the research? show me just one email in which W says to cheney (or anyone else) that the data doesn't validate his claims about saddam's wmd or that any info suggesting anything else should be kept from the public or that they need to change the whole intelligence process to conform to their ideas
you CAN'T but you still believe "bush lied"...well, you've got actual physical evidence that some of the leading agw scientists did all of the above, but you still think we're the stupid ones
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michae1
Gym climber
san jose
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What happen to the mini ice age we were to have in the mid 1970's ?
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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jeremy -good try at a concise but naive post on the definition climate v weather.
Remember that the public opinion battle is key to cut funding of these Warmists mafia style ripoff of the world.
i.e. pay money of something bad happen to you....yes? Haha!
And weather is the club to thrash them back into their holes.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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The partisan thread is elsewhere. Can we keep this OT on the topic at hand?
John
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michae1
Gym climber
san jose
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it get's hot in summer too, as for the experts who do you belive? it is almost alway's about
power or money
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Terry
climber
Spokane
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Jan 11, 2010 - 10:58am PT
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Dr. F - your statement that 99% of people 'agree' Global Warming/Climate Change is happening is ludicrous of course but you are part of the campaign "Say it enough and it becomes True" I suppose.
Here's another recent article pointing out the problem of drinking the cool-aid as so many appear to have done. It points out that while warming did occur it was part of a 'short term' natural cycle as we discover every time we cry "Climate Change" ala 1974 and the coming Ice Age.
And please note, these guys quoted in the following article are not GW 'deniers'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html
Points made:
"According to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, Arctic summer sea ice has increased by 409,000 square miles, or 26 per cent, since 2007 – and even the most committed global warming activists do not dispute this."
"But from 1940 until the late Seventies, the last MDO cold-mode era, the world cooled, despite the fact that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere continued to rise"
But just previous to this cooling period people were worried about Global Warming:
"For example, in 1922, the Washington Post reported that Greenland’s glaciers were fast disappearing, while Arctic seals were ‘finding the water too hot’.
It interviewed a Captain Martin Ingebrigsten, who had been sailing the eastern Arctic for 54 years: ‘He says that he first noted warmer conditions in 1918, and since that time it has gotten steadily warmer."
He recalled that towards the end of the last cold mode, the world’s media were preoccupied by fears of freezing.
For example, in 1974, a Time magazine cover story predicted ‘Another Ice Age’, saying: ‘Man may be somewhat responsible – as a result of farming and fuel burning [which is] blocking more and more sunlight from reaching and heating the Earth.’
Prof Tsonis said: ‘Perhaps we will see talk of an ice age."
"But he added: ‘I do not believe in catastrophe theories. Man-made warming is balanced by the natural cycles, and I do not trust the computer models which state that if CO2 reaches a particular level then temperatures and sea levels will rise by a given amount.
'These models cannot be trusted to predict the weather for a week, yet they are running them to give readings for 100 years.’"
This last point is so true - we want to change the economy and lifestyle of the West based upon a computer model that hasn't been proven?? PLEASE!!!
I know I won't change Dr. F's mind or those like him but I hope people will look at this sanely and not buy into the Religion without looking at both sides of the issue. The scariest, and most telling, part of the "Emailgate" was there desire to squash 'bad information' that didn't agree with their theory. If they were true scientists they would be looking to for the truth whether it agreed with their agenda or not.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 11, 2010 - 11:24am PT
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"CIA confirms that Bush lied about WMD
http://whitehouser.com/war/cia-confirms-bush-wmd-lie/"
wow! you point to a couple blogs as proof...why haven't the nyt, lat, wapo, etc. picked up on this evidence that would make putting bush on trial not only feasible but also mandatory? oh, right, those papers are all just part of the vrwc
yes, those agw scientists receive only "small funding"...hey, gm and chrysler should ask those guys how they manage to purchase all that high-tech equipment, set it up around the world, hire people to travel to these far away places to live and compile research, then travel themselves to other far away places to hobnob with the elite to share their research, then use their hobnobbing to write up more requests to receive more "small funding"...it's wonder they even have time to teach any students
f, claims 99% of people think agw is real...well, if co2 is the problem, and people emit co2, then if 99% of the people who think agw is real would simply stop breathing, the rest of us could begin building up the supply of co2 to test your theory...how about it, f, want to be the first volunteer? it's for science!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 12, 2010 - 12:54am PT
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Climate research is funded by the NSF, DOE, NIST NASA and NOAA. The AAAS report on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate Change Programs for FY09 can be found here:
Ed, are you implying thee people are incapable of bias for dollars? I think they are!
You guys (not you necesarily) imply these guys are incapable of bias...I disagree. In fact, I think there's just as must proof as to the oil industry's influence.
So where does that leave us? I know...oil=evil. Scientist=good.
Hmmmmm,
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 12, 2010 - 01:30am PT
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Ed, if you were a wealthy oil company, wouldn't you pay to support research disapproving what you thought was a myth, and distortion?
Just like enviro groups supporting it?
I guess it comes down to facts, doesn't it? And what are those measurable facts right now?
Not the silly computer models that failed to see the current cold trend. Not the models that predicted global warming. What do they see now?
Are those models even valid anymore?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 12, 2010 - 02:31am PT
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interesting stuff, Ed.
I have been watching the ice-caps despite our cold spells here on land.
Interesting...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 11:38am PT
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kinda sez it all.
It is time for the leaders to lead.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 12, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
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Interesting contrast. For the cerebral (and fact-oriented) we have Ed. For the others, we have Rolling Stone.
John
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Jan 12, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
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¨Interesting contrast. For the cerebral (and fact-oriented) we have Ed. For the others, we have Rolling Stone.¨
Well, if that´s what it takes to get through to some people.....anyone willing to read the science already knows there is pretty much unanimous consensus among scientists studying climate change
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686
If you live in a potentially risky area, would you rather wait to see if your house is really going to burn down, or invest in insurance?
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