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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 22, 2019 - 05:46pm PT
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^^^ We've been having that very conversation almost this entire thread.
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ruppell
climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 05:54pm PT
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F*#k it.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:03pm PT
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The following sites are great sources of copyright-free images:
Getty Open Content: Public domain art images from Getty collections.
Library of Congress Prints & Photographs Online: Images from the Library of Congress, now in the public domain.
Wikimedia Commons: Historical and contemporary images contributed by participants. Millions of high-resolution images of art, architecture, design, people, historical events, diagrams, maps, and more.
World Images: Primarily historical images organized into 18 categories, including Women, Science, Cities, Natural World, Science, and more.
NGA Images - National Gallery of Art: Includes more than 20,000 open access digital images, available free of charge for download and use
Archive.org: Extensive website containing free eBooks, images, video, audio, and other media to view and download. Also includes the Internet Wayback Machine, for accessing archived, past versions of websites.
The Commons by Flickr: Images from archives, museums, libraries and research centers such as the New York Public Library, Smithsonian, Library of Congress and Getty Research Institute. The images have no known copyright restrictions.
Photo Graphic Libraries: Public Domain Images: Provides links to public domain and free image collections, film & video available for use in the public domain
Yale University Digital Commons: Yale's digital collections, including images from the Peabody Museum, Center for British Art, University Art Gallery, Library Map Collection, and Walpole Library Prints and Drawings. Item records clearly indicate when an object/image is public domain material and available for open access and use without license fees.
https://owhlguides.andover.edu/c.php?g=111583&p=721634
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johntp
Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:15pm PT
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As a reminder, you are solely responsible for your photo uploads. We do not condone, nor will we accept financial liability, for any member who uploads images or content to SuperTopo that infringes on the copyrights of others.
Question to the mods: All the photos I've posted are mine with three exceptions. These were pictures by Dave Bohn of two celestial photos and one with he and MDaly BITD. He knows I posted them here and had no objection. I credited them to Dave.
To my knowledge, they are not copy righted. Are they OK or out of compliance?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:27pm PT
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zBrown, thank you for that list. I had earlier asked about Commons but had no answer. So a Commons photo would have no restrictions re posting.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:34pm PT
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The DMCA safe harbour only applies if:
1. The site doesn't receive a financial benefit from the copyrighted work
2. Doesn't know it is hosting copyrighted material and
3. Promptly removes it upon discovery.
I don't see how that statute is helpful here.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:38pm PT
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This site seems to fit all three requirements...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:58pm PT
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Neither Chris nor RJ has explicitly stated that public domain images are OK.
However since their concern is with copyright violation I am guessing that pd images can be uploaded to ST.
They did however delete many public domain photos in their quest for copyright purity.
I'd like to once again thank those of you who have helped us by taking the time to delete any copyright infringing photos you have uploaded.
Perhaps designating the image "Credit" as "Public Domain" or "Copyright_Free" would help.
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johntp
Trad climber
Punter, Little Rock
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:07pm PT
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Just noticed the Tee-Shirt thread has had a boatload of photos deleted. There was a lot of history there. Why do photos of tee shirts require deletion?
This whole process of purging the forum just seems ambiguous and random.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:12pm PT
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The artwork on the T-shirts themselves might be copyrighted. Some, or most of it surely is. And reproducing a likeness of it could be an infringement?
We'd all have to be lawyers to really know about this stuff, and RJ has already stated that it's not their place to give us a ruling on every little move we make.
These guys are now enforcing rules that went unenforced for a very long time, in order to protect themselves from a lawsuit bolstered by some ruling in 2018.
We, likewise, are complying as best we can. But not without a good deal of complaining: so it goes.
Since most of us are not lawyers, and neither are RJ or CMAC, yeah, our efforts are likely to be pretty inconsistent. Not surprising.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:16pm PT
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Yes tB, derivatives are not just in calculus!
Photoshop and Derivatives of Copyrighted Images - modifying a copyrighted photo in Photoshop, or taking a photo of a photo doesn't give you the right to use it
Many images died due to the bulk delete methodology. E.G mfm's fotos
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:53pm PT
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The artwork on the T-shirts themselves might be copyrighted.
Jesus f*#king Christ. Everything seems to be copyrighted; this is stupid. If I take a picture of my daughter in Disneyland can I show it to a friend or post it on Supertopo? Probably not, it might have some copyrighted image of Mickey in it.
I've actually never been to Disneyland and don't even know if they allow cameras.
And since I'm on a rant, here's another thing; the copyright period was about to expire on Mickey Mouse and Disney had 'our' legislators extend the copyright for another 70 years or something.
True story: My daughter and wife went to Disneyland when Katy was like nine. When they got back to Seattle she wrote a letter to Disney telling them that their conception of the tree house in their version of Swiss Family Robinson was wrong, as she'd read the book several times, and proceeded to list their errors. She offered to help them correct the set, with specific guidelines as to errors. Hilarious. I have a copy somewhere but can't find it quickly. They never responded.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Apr 23, 2019 - 01:06am PT
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When in doubt throw it out
However what about pictures sent to me & pictures that I appear in?
There is an implied reciprocity of use,
I own my own likeness and do not release that without retaining the right to also use the picture.
(this, when no previous agreement has been entered into,)
(no capitalization/monetization or professional use was intended.)
What if I am the only identifiable person in the picture?
&/or I enhance the picture to isolate myself?
What if I am one of three in a picture?
(taken by a 4th party & posted without permission, or by a 5th party that is we are climbing side by side)
what if I am in the background and enhance that to isolate myself?
Also If I remove the subject of a picture, the resulting derivative
is a different picture.
(removing the Hot Rods, Gas pumps, people, doors, entrances, displayed merchandise, showing only partial sings & roof)
(& I show complete strangers, the pictures that I take of them & offer to share the image, explaining that I might post it here)
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 23, 2019 - 04:33am PT
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Guys, there is a light at the and of this tunnel.
I believe that we have a chance of stopping these lawyers/racketeers in a not so distant future.
Have you paid attention to Michael Avenatti?
It was OK (from point of view of the American justice system) when he was extorting Donald Trump.
However he got into some troubles when he tried to repeat the same trick with Nike, one of the real masters of the US.
Avenatti charged with trying to extort millions from Nike
I am curious whether Chris already contacted the office of a local prosecutor.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 23, 2019 - 04:53am PT
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I believe that we have a chance of stopping these lawyers/racketeers in a not so distant future.
I bet Nike's full-time legal department is just slightly better funded than ST... The profit margin on cheaply manfactured Chinese shoes with an overpriced swoosh logo is pretty good.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 23, 2019 - 06:05am PT
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fear, I hope that they can set up a precedent that would make a life of all other people easier.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 23, 2019 - 07:03am PT
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A couple pages back I'd said:
Marlow's historical deletions are terrifying.
RJ, you responded with:
I have a hard time believing that you, Roy, would really advocate that people on this site disregard other people's copyrights.
And I wouldn't advocate for it, RJ, not with regard to that material which Marlow posted: not at this juncture. So don't believe it, my friend.
My statement was purely a lament based on my prior hope that the many posts from Marlow and Grossman (and from the rest of us concerning historical photos and articles), fell under the fair use guidelines.
It is terrifying to me, in a brave new world/censorship kind of way.
But it is all water under the bridge at this point. To protect yourselves, you and CMAC have interpreted that this material does not fall under fair use guidelines, or that fair use guidelines are insufficient. Though I don't like it, I respect your choices based on your predicament and fully understand where we are with all of this today.
Whether or not your requests of us and your choice to enforce your long-standing rules on copyright is an overreaction on your part vis-à-vis the threat you are under, isn't something on which I'm qualified to form an opinion. So I won't. And I do imagine this has to be a nightmare for you and Chris.
......................................................
Here's some irony, though, RJ:
It's only potentially infringing photos on the Supertopo photo hosting platform which you've asked for us to take down. Everything we've had in the [img] external hosting platforms, should you turn the switch back on at a later date, is still intact! The stuff deleted from your servers is gone forever.
So from the standpoint of retaining all of our work on various threads and trip reports, an argument could be made that we were better off hosting externally!
This is neither a criticism nor a condemnation, just an observation.
But, I'm really glad I held out on switching to the Supertopo photo upload resource until much later in my efforts at generating content here.
......................................................
 We'll all get through this one way or another, together, as a community.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Apr 23, 2019 - 07:27am PT
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I bet we should go back to other hosting sites that we used for stuff on SuperTopo and delete the images that don't adhere to the ST terms of service. Not as easy as going through the photos directly uploaded to ST.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 23, 2019 - 08:00am PT
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Except for three things, MH2:
1) It still isn't all that clear to me in every case what is an infringement and what isn't.
2) RJ and CMAC may in the future reinterpret the allowances of fair use doctrine, legal precedent may change, and then a lot (most) of our stuff on those independent hosting sites could be reactivated, with less risk to our hosts.
3) If you look at the browser hack recommended up thread by JLP, that allows independent users to see those threads with [img] tags fully intact: RJ says he's fine with this.
For those reasons, I won't be deleting anything in my photobucket.
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