Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
|
|
Moose, I was an atheist once upon a time, but then decided that was just as arrogant as the religious folks. Now I know I just don't know.
That there might be something going on out there that I'm not hip to is definitely a possibility. I just hope it's not that old testament god.
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
|
|
Keep in mind that I believe the Bible has a historical flow, so I do not want to cherry pick certain verses and will try to provide context.
Funny, you cite specific passages when it serves you, and gloss over vast sections as historic flow when they don't... How about that whole "I believe that people are hypocrites."...
I am amazed folks who believe in a "perfect" God, and who can reconcile the Bible being his unaltered word while it is such a badly written and self conflicted document. How could a "perfect" God botch the users manual so badly? Did he subcontract that out to a "special" angel?
Personally I think we would be better off as a world if the emphasis was on loving your fellow man, and living a moral life than trying to live by documents that serve more as Rorschach tests than as a manual to live a godly moral life by. I can dig a lot of the broad brush teaching of Jesus, but way far too few Christians seem to live by them, but instead cherry pick passages to support their hate and hypocrisy. It makes them an insufferable lot.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
|
|
Sure you know, Gary. I am sure you eliminated many beliefs as not possible. Thor? Shiva?
Thor is as likely as anything else.
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
|
|
It is a classic question, what happens if the one true religion has already come and gone? Was Ra the sun god the right answer? Does everyone after that miss out? What about all the poor sots from before the one true religion came to be? Are all cavemen and all those who God chose to be born on the wrong continent all condemned to hell? All the Buddhists? You can't convince me that the Dalai Lama won't be making the cut.
Seems pretty callous.
Seems pretty awful for a perfect God to sit idly by for millennia watching every human spirit get shoveled downstairs while just biding his time to let his intricate plan play out and for the one true religion spring up so he can finally have some company.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Clueless ^^^^^ completely totally clueless.
An atheist now tells the world what God himself is doing and thinking.
You're insane .....
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
I could go on and on and on, but I won't because you already know the Bible.
So my question; IF the Bible is the literal word of god, then how do you justify god telling humans to rape, enslave, and murder?
Norton, you've posted those cut/paste things before. Did you ever read the passages? The comments in italic seem a bit construed from the meanings of those verses, to me atleast.
Above from the exodus 21 you linked. Here's one i like;
And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone,thou shaltnot build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
Ex 20.25
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"--
---
I am guilty of chasing this empty chatter. But the non-historical, non-mythical issues of any religion, beyond faint and myth, continue to fascinate me. Bickering over the verity of an ancient moral code, not so much...
|
|
Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
|
|
"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him..."
Which man?
Homo habilis? Homo erectus? Homo neanderthalensis? Homo sapiens?
|
|
limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
|
Are you really going there? This is no different than me defending my southern ancestors by saying "they treated their nigras real good!". I guess if we can't agree that there's a difference between people giving themselves to someone to exchange work for food and shelter for their family, and someone being forced into slavery for racial reasons, then we won't understand each other on this one.
I still don't believed the Bible condones slavery, but it did give rules to protect the people who enter into a contract to exchange work for food and shelter. Either way, the new testament teaches a love that is not compatible with this type of contract (Mark 12:31).
As intimated by others, if you are truly graced by a spiritual presence, and based on the lack of scientific explanations in regards to the genesis of life, would these not be more credible lines of debate and potential agreement?
Perhaps, but I don't see this as a stage to change anyone's mind, I only want to answer questions people have about a Christian. I believe that Jesus is the only one who can change minds (1st Corinthians 3:6).
Limpingcrab,
respectfully, can you take another shot at my questions?
from reading your reply I felt you bs'd you way, example being your unbelievable response to god condoning slavery - that really the slaves kind of were ok with that
I asked you if you agreed those murdering, enslaving, raping orders from god were really written by men back then and not the literal word of god, I can't find your answer?
really limping, this needs to be cleared up, either all of the bible is the literal word of god with no cherry picking saying yeah, yes, some parts were written by men
thanks again, if you woiuld clear all this up better Sorry, I think I was a little too wordy, and since I'm not good with those it probably wasn't clear.
I believe all of the Bible was inspired by God and is useful (2nd Timothy 3:16-17). I mean, there was a human with a pen at some point, but I believe the words came from God. I try not to cherry pick, and I don't think that I do. Jesus taught with parables and I don't think it changes anything if there wasn't an actual dude planting seeds in four types of soil with weeds and birds all around (Matthew 13). In the same way I don't have a problem with people believing that some of the stories in Genesis were parables. Personally, I believe what the Old Testament said actually happened and whoever wrote it was instructed by God. Without cherry picking, and reading the whole story, I have no doubt that God does not condone rape, murder or slavery. If you would like more specifics on one of those I'll do my best. But, without an eternal perspective and without acknowledging the severity of sin and rejecting God, it will be hard to understand what the Bible says.
"Keep in mind that I believe the Bible has a historical flow, so I do not want to cherry pick certain verses and will try to provide context."
Funny, you cite specific passages when it serves you, and gloss over vast sections as historic flow when they don't... How about that whole "I believe that people are hypocrites."...
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'll happily address what I believe about any passage you are curious about. I only cite verses so that I don't run my mouth and say a bunch of stuff that I can't back up with the text.
I am amazed folks who believe in a "perfect" God, and who can reconcile the Bible being his unaltered word while it is such a badly written and self conflicted document. How could a "perfect" God botch the users manual so badly? Did he subcontract that out to a "special" angel? I don't believe this is correct and I am convinced there are no contradictions in the Bible. I have spent a lot of time on the skeptics Bible website, as well. If you have one you would like to ask me about, I'm all ears!
Personally I think we would be better off as a world if the emphasis was on loving your fellow man, and living a moral life than trying to live by documents that serve more as Rorschach tests than as a manual to live a godly moral life by. I can dig a lot of the broad brush teaching of Jesus, but way far too few Christians seem to live by them, but instead cherry pick passages to support their hate and hypocrisy. It makes them an insufferable lot. Looks like we agree on some stuff after all.
It is a classic question, what happens if the one true religion has already come and gone? Was Ra the sun god the right answer? Does everyone after that miss out? What about all the poor sots from before the one true religion came to be? Are all cavemen and all those who God chose to be born on the wrong continent all condemned to hell? All the Buddhists? You can't convince me that the Dalai Lama won't be making the cut.
Seems pretty callous.
Seems pretty awful for a perfect God to sit idly by for millennia watching every human spirit get shoveled downstairs while just biding his time to let his intricate plan play out and for the one true religion spring up so he can finally have some company. I agree that it would be pretty lame if there was a God that condemned people to hell for not knowing about him, and then kept it a secret. Thankfully, that's not the God I believe in. I believe nobody is without excuse and he has revealed himself to everyone (Romans 1:20). I don't claim to understand how that works, but I believe God is just. Though a just God also punishes rejecting him, as just parents who loves their children would correct the kids while still loving them unconditionally.
|
|
limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
|
"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him..."
Which man?
Homo habilis? Homo erectus? Homo neanderthalensis? Homo sapiens?
I believe when God created Mad he made them special and gave them an eternal soul. I personally think He did this from scratch, but if someone believes He did so over time before we were given souls, I don't think it effects the overall message.
Limpingcrab, you just stated that the Bible was inspired by God. That's a really big thing for a Christian to say VS. the Bible being the word of God. I'm bad with semantics. I meant that people were inspired to write down the word of God. However you slice it, I believe that the Bible is without error.
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Why would he make man special? What is in it for God?
|
|
patrick compton
Trad climber
van
|
|
I believe that the Bible is without error.
from: http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bible/library/tough.shtml
1. Why does the evangelical church say there are no contradictions in the Bible when they are plainly there for anyone to see? (These are too numerous even to list a representative sample here. There are many books and monographs on this topic in the skeptical literature.1)
2. Why does the Old Testament teach that there is no hell, while the New Testament teaches that there is? The idea of "progressive revelation" does not explain the conflicts in the biblical texts.
3. Why does most of the Old Testament teach that there is no afterlife (see Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, for example), while later Old Testament writings and the New Testament do?
4. Why does the church say that God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), when many biblical passages flatly contradict this?2
5. Was God known by the name Yahweh prior to Moses (Exodus 6:3), or was he not (Genesis 4:26, 5:29, 9:24, 22:14, 27:20, 27:27, 28:20-21)?
6. Which "Ten Commandments" are the Ten Commandments - the ones listed at Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, or the ones listed at Exodus 34? Only the list at Exodus 34 is explicitly called the "Ten Commandments" in the biblical text.
7. Was the Law given by Yahweh perfect (Psalm 19:7), or wasn't it (Hebrews 8:6-8)?
8. Why can't the six accounts of the resurrection be reconciled?3 Paul says that without the resurrection, the Christian faith is in vain (1 Cor 15:14). How could the biblical accounts possibly disagree on such an important narrative?
9. Why were the disciples surprised by Jesus's resurrection after Jesus had told them repeatedly to expect it?4 An angel even reminded the women that Jesus had told them of his impending resurrection (Luke 24:6-7). How is it that the women remembered his words (Luke 24:8), but the disciples didn't (John 20:9, Luke 24:12)? Even Jesus's enemies remembered that he had foretold that he would rise again (Matthew 27:63).
|
|
Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
|
|
I believe that the Bible is without error.
That is the stupidest statement in a world of stupid statements. Seriously. Mouth Breathing, Pencil Licking stupid.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
Massive fail, Limping Crab
You just defended murdering, raping, and enslaving humans beings
You simply can not say that the Bible, you can not even say that "portions"
were written by men, men who grew up watching their fathers and other "men" murdering, raping and enslaving and thought nothing of writing it down as a way of living, a directive for life, when they grew up, and those men were so damn ignorant, so delusional, they said god told them to write that down and other men, later called their writings a part of the "bible"
and you buy it, Limping Crab, strike three, you got nothing
edit: Wayne Merry, Fossil Climber, gets it, Homo Erectus indeed
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Big massive fail for the atheists
The hypocrite atheists defend murdering, raping, genocide, enslaving humans beings, along with terrorism with their perpetual wars all over the world.
The hypocrite atheists are the same as the hypocrite so called Christians.
The atheists and the so called Christians have no clue what a real Christian is .....
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
If you're a real Christian then there is no negativity.
A real Christian can never be touched by any negativity.
That is why it has been referenced by the phrase "so called Christian" as to being the hypocrites.
The atheists can not nor understand the differences because of the very fact they are atheists.
They atheists are bound by the stringent laws of duality and contradictions of which they have no clue how to transcend.
They are fools .....
|
|
STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
|
|
Hypocrisy also reveals the truth. It's probably the greatest religion there is.
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
Critical thought experiment
What if?
What if we put you inside a comfortable room, and this room was shielded by impenetrable walls, nothing can penetrate these walls, not even spiritual communication (stay focused, it's not a matter if such a wall can be fabricated, we can do it as a thought experiment), sub atomic particles or anything you could think of or anything you can't think of.
You are in this room, and we ask you if you can still feel your religious connections, or do you feel disconnected from this source?
would you feel empty?
what would happen??
God and Jesus can not be reached, the connection has been severed.
Even Largo would be in peril, his mind all alone, separated from the vast nothingness that he has been connecting to.
Nothing would change for me, that's my answer.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
not even spiritual communication
By even saying the above quote shows you are absolutely clueless.
Spiritual communication is impossible to sever.
One may or may not understand the spiritual communication according to time and circumstance but it is never ever severed.
If the spiritual communication is actually severed then the the entire cosmic manifestation would immediately disappear.
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
No, it shows that you can not critically think
you can't even be challenged by a single idea that's outside your entrenched dogma
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!