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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 23, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
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bob....why?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 23, 2015 - 10:49pm PT
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Just 'cause I like that shot. Plus, I bet there's bolts there now.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 23, 2015 - 11:00pm PT
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Mount Everest Off Width, again
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 23, 2015 - 11:41pm PT
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RWA and REA climbing the mexican dinner mantle in a style so beautiful it makes me weep with joy
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 23, 2015 - 11:45pm PT
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a young michael paul takes 1st place in the jr division at the 1978
(i think) woodson stonemasters competition
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Friend
climber
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Aug 24, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 24, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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Woodson has some proud highballs, even by today's standards. Karl Mueller and I scoped that boulder when we were just breaking into 5.10's, always meant to go back but it was years later when I finally did...nice tick there, pardner!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 24, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
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Hey Illusiondweller, maybe you could give "Freind" some more locals only secret-handshake straight-from-the-mouth-of-christ beta? Looks to me there like he could benefit from your encyclopedic knowledge of Woodson.
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Scattergun
Trad climber
Encinitas
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Aug 24, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
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I will not be doing any chipping or ruining routes. I was just angry. I do not now or every believed in that. I will meet any one face to face in a real civil meeting with no extras.
Maybe there has to be a method where climbers re protect old routes and apply to create new routes. I am open to that. I am not in it self aggrandizement because if we were we would have posted it on Mountain Project two years ago. Any one can talk to me and I will be open to discussing any opinions. By the way I will never chop a route. I might chop a bad bolt . I am not a punk and am not a young climber into fame. Everyone has a point and I mean that. I wish we could all just step back cool off (Sorry I know I also am responsible).
Roger
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 24, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
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No worries roger, going off is understandable, and im sorry if i antagonized you, but I was also frustrated at your seeming unwillingness to accept that the need to keep the lid on this kind of bolting is more important than your need to make a cool little lead. There is a generation of gym climbers hitting the rocks who are going to take their cue as to whats appropriate from what they see. The visibility thing is also a concern, because its permanent alteration to the rock and that is prohibited. That doesnt mean no new bolts, it means bolting should be done very discretely and bolts as invisible as possible.
As a rule, only the first ascent party should ever place bolts on a route, and at woodson lead bolts, with a couple of historical exceptions, have only been placed on climbs of cutting edge difficulty. If you had dug that slab out of the brush, did the first ascent and bolted it on the lead, there might be a little grumbling, but nobody would chop the bolts because of the time and effort you put in, and because its out of sight out of mind.
I know you love this little slab and it probably is a fun lead, but you shouldnt have bolted it and they need to come out. If you take your hangers off and take the extra steel off the anchor i cant speak for anyone else, but i wont go any farther. If I have to remove the hardware I will give it back to you, but im going to pound lead into the bolt sockets to disable them. Fair compromise? Like i said im not trying to be a dick, im looking at the big picture. peace
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 08:36am PT
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Maybe there has to be a method where climbers re protect old routes and apply to create new routes. I am open to that.
in my experience (climbing since 1969) climbing in an area extensively, meeting the local community and especially those active in FAs, learning what the local style is, and also getting a sense of what the possible future directions might be is the traditional path to creating new routes.
Formal rules and procedures do not seem to have worked over time.
Scattergun would seem to be engaging the community online, but would probably do better to be at Woodson and climbing with "the crew." Maybe he has, I don't know...
but it is strange to wake up and log on to find an email from him:
Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!
This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.
The message is:
Please climb R-n-R, Woodson Before its Chopped.
Sent by: Scattergun raamaestro@xxxxxx.yyy
I see his STForum email has been disabled... Whether or not I climb his route R-n-R seems beside the point, I'm not a local, and I doubt that my opinion would have much weight in a debate over what the Woodson local style and ethic is, or should be... I've climbed at Woodson, and know a lot of people who learned to climb there, and respect them, their climbing and the style they developed there.
I'm sure times are changing and the Woodson of old may become something entirely different in the future, but there is a lot to learn from the old ways.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Aug 27, 2015 - 10:27am PT
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Wow you really don't get it do you scatterboy? Why is this so important to you? Do you see it as your little piece of glory on woodson? It doesn't come that cheap and easy. You leave me no choice.
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sd-nick
Trad climber
San Diego
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Aug 27, 2015 - 11:29am PT
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Those bolts are really an eyesore. At least couldve painted them. Hiking up the hill in the morning its impossible to miss the sun beaming off them. The only obvious bolts on the hill to hikers. BTW I did climb it, (at night with no light), (5.9). While an OK route, this is Woodson, and the bolts must go.
This is also the same dude who rebolted that arete down the hill from out of sight next to the sweet 5.7 dihedral. And left the old line of bolts there for months, (not sure if he ever went back to clean up his mess). And throw in the new unnecessary bolt on top of american express (west bullethole at santee)
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Aug 27, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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Maybe there has to be a method where climbers re protect old routes and apply to create new routes.
Roger
Maybe a 'method' isn't necessary. Maybe things at Woodson are just fine the way they are (Well, aside from all the sh#t paper strewn climber paths).
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 27, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
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Sheeesh. Just take the bolts out. That thing was climbed long before you bolted it.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
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3000 woemn??? Are those like wookies? If you can defeat ISIS, all the rest is golden with me...
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Friend
climber
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Aug 27, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
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Jon Clark mugs for the camera. Phantom Crack, onsight free solo.
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dmr
Social climber
Carlsbad, CA
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Aug 27, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
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I think this needs some splaining.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 27, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
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WTF. Is someone planning to haul that boulder off with a helicopter?!
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